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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Jul 31st 2019, 7:26 pm
  #12106  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

''Why Brexiters do not seem to grasp'' should read ''why Brexiters don't want to grasp''. They do not want to know of anything negative with Brexit.
And this is not just relating to Bluey's immigration obsession, it has to do with everything involved with Brexit.

in Lalaland ...
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Old Jul 31st 2019, 7:30 pm
  #12107  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
No, there doesn't need to be subsidised programs, the market will send signals that working in these sectors pays well and economic actors will step in to provide training for these jobs. The government does not need to be involved.

We should only allow the importation of people that we can feel has a high certainty will not be a net drain on UK coffers, so yes, those who don't earn sufficient should not be allowed to import a spouse. Valid marriage - IMO an arranged marriage where they met the day before is not valid and is open to a whole host of exploitations, both immigration and human rights ones.

I doubt it - it's hard to be rational when social justice warriors are shouting "racist"! and "xenophobic"! anytime a rational discussion on the subject is discussed.

In your example it is likely that past Indian migrants were urban and relatively educated compared to past Pakistani ones. There may also be cultural influences that have impacted success in the UK, both national and religious.

Politically it might be necessary, this also ignores the central point of 75% of EU migrants working in low-paid roles that will be a net drain on UK coffers.
So Brexiters will be leading a charge no only to make it easier for non EU skilled workers to come in the country ? Or to satisfy the need for skilled workers will make it as easy as it is ow to bring in EU skilled workers will give FOM to skilled workers from wherever ? Somehow neither seems likely.

Have no disagreement that due to the nature of the British benefit system that lower skilled EU or non EU migrants may be a net drain on the coffers, but surely this can be quantified to some degree and compared/estimated to the negatives that Brext will bring about to determine a level of probability of a net overall benefit or disadvantage. Maybe I missed it, but is there a Brexiter analysis of what wage levels they would expect in 2 to 4 years ? Is there any rational analysis of what major export boom in which industries with which countries will result- and the possible negatives of granting more than the EU does advantages to foreign exports in various industries? Will cheaper food imports result if the pound is collapsing ?

Surely Brexiters must have run scenarios considering these various factors that is available, ad it shows on average a high probability of success against the potential risks.? Is there any serious Brexiter economist that has given a forecast of wage rates for lower skilled jobs over the next 2 to 4 years ? Maybe there is please do post a link where one might find such a Brexiter analysis.
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Old Jul 31st 2019, 7:42 pm
  #12108  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Rather than address his points on the backstop etc, as usual you all drop into the ad-hom against him. I guess it's easier than examining your own fixed positions.
No, not ad hom at all. At no point did my post attack the person, and that article would be propaganda whoever wrote it.

ad hominem
(hŏm′ə-nĕm′, -nəm)
adj.
1. Attacking a person's character or motivations rather than a position or argument:
propaganda
/prɒpəˈɡandə/
noun
  1. 1.
    information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.
So you're wrong, again...

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
We should only allow the importation of people that we can feel has a high certainty will not be a net drain on UK coffers, so yes, those who don't earn sufficient should not be allowed to import a spouse.
Let's look at the causes of people being a net drain on UK resources, shall we? Around 50% of the UK working population earn less than the UK Spouse Visa Minimum Income Requirement of £18,600 per year. And many of those will need Tax Credits or Universal Credit top-ups. Surely the correct answer to this would be to increase the pay for a semi-skilled job to around £25,000 to eliminate the need for these top-ups.
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Old Jul 31st 2019, 7:50 pm
  #12109  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

The facts are -
  • The UK decided on an ill-fated course that will involve additional costs and disruption, and which we are told its population still wants.
  • It's English Tories spent 2.5 years playing politics whilst holding it's own internal civil war.
  • The UK was offered a deal which it rejected three times; - we all know why.
  • The UK asked for extension/s with the latest one being to 31/10 and the current leadership has declared there will be no GE or 2nd vote.
Current UK policy, that bluster & aping Trump conduct will somehow force the EU to cave in, is a patent fiction. Any of that might be argued as a govt function ; - but what clearly isn't a govt prerogative is to play with people's lives, businesses and their financial integrity, and general living standards in the interim.
The delay to 31/10 imo, is smoke & mirrors to prevent the very real state of complete unpreparedness becoming apparent within the UK, before either having to ask for even more time..... or......?
The EU shouldn't wait, it shouldn't negotiate, it shouldn't let itself be sidetracked imo. It should just declare that the UK's conduct demonstrates that it has, by default now left, and recommend to its member states that they close their borders now and treat the UK as a third nation. Two can play at having hard balls.

Last edited by 007Steve; Jul 31st 2019 at 7:53 pm.
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Old Aug 1st 2019, 9:05 am
  #12110  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
The facts are -
  • The UK decided on an ill-fated course

That cannot be decided until time shows one way or another.
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Old Aug 1st 2019, 9:10 am
  #12111  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Another 2.1 bn being pumped into no deal preparations. I think that amounts to 6.2 bn. Money well spent I suppose.

And the Government will buy up any lamb and beef at the point of slaughter that the farmers can't sell to the EU after Brexit. Expected expenses half a bn/year.
Sounds like a plan.
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Old Aug 1st 2019, 10:57 am
  #12112  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Fredbargate View Post
That cannot be decided until time shows one way or another.
... OK, .....How long then Fred? - in your opinion? A week after, a month after, a year after, or until a set of "historically adjusted" govt stats says so. Or why don't we go the whole hog now, and just bluster it'll be great because a neutral comparator won't be used?

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Another 2.1 bn being pumped into no deal preparations. I think that amounts to 6.2 bn. Money well spent I suppose.
And the Government will buy up any lamb and beef at the point of slaughter that the farmers can't sell to the EU after Brexit. Expected expenses half a bn/year.
Sounds like a plan.
.... But - It won't be given at cost to those using UK food-banks or on tax-credits, because..... wait for it..... "It's not the govt's function to undermine normal market forces" PUT A BET ON IT. :
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Old Aug 1st 2019, 9:49 pm
  #12113  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

It really is just an echo chamber in this part of the forum.

you are all just braying the same stuff over and over.

No threads on EU weaknesses. For example , They still havent sorted migration. They still haven't got transparency on the top jobs. Just winning candidates parachuted in from nowhere. Still these things and the general ( unchanged of course) direction of the EU determined not by the people or the MEPs even isn't of interest to the average citizen. They just need the coziness of being an EU citizen.

It isnt about prosperity although as Europeans you would have thought a post exit trading arrangement could have been sorted by both sides ages ago, but then when did politicians give a damn about the man in the street anywhere. No it is about what is best for the long term. Federal Europe, common tax, one size fits all Or decide what is best for your country.

I will dip back in in 98 days to see the glee endlessly expressed by forum members over Spanish salad produce rotting in lorries in Calais , Welsh lamb having to be eaten by UK customers, Irish farmers dodging armed barricades on the border, chaos on healthcare for expats etc etc

98 days to go and no one has a clue what is going to happen apart from the EU with their backstop trump card and the Tories with their No Deal trump card.
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Old Aug 1st 2019, 10:08 pm
  #12114  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by olivefarmer View Post
It really is just an echo chamber in this part of the forum.

you are all just braying the same stuff over and over.

No threads on EU weaknesses. For example , They still havent sorted migration. They still haven't got transparency on the top jobs. Just winning candidates parachuted in from nowhere. Still these things and the general ( unchanged of course) direction of the EU determined not by the people or the MEPs even isn't of interest to the average citizen. They just need the coziness of being an EU citizen.

It isnt about prosperity although as Europeans you would have thought a post exit trading arrangement could have been sorted by both sides ages ago, but then when did politicians give a damn about the man in the street anywhere. No it is about what is best for the long term. Federal Europe, common tax, one size fits all Or decide what is best for your country.

I will dip back in in 98 days to see the glee endlessly expressed by forum members over Spanish salad produce rotting in lorries in Calais , Welsh lamb having to be eaten by UK customers, Irish farmers dodging armed barricades on the border, chaos on healthcare for expats etc etc

98 days to go and no one has a clue what is going to happen apart from the EU with their backstop trump card and the Tories with their No Deal trump card.
Welcome back

If you want to start a thread about EU weeknesses, feel free. No one is stopping you.

Good luck
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Old Aug 1st 2019, 10:46 pm
  #12115  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by olivefarmer View Post
It really is just an echo chamber in this part of the forum.

you are all just braying the same stuff over and over.

No threads on EU weaknesses. For example , They still havent sorted migration. They still haven't got transparency on the top jobs. Just winning candidates parachuted in from nowhere. Still these things and the general ( unchanged of course) direction of the EU determined not by the people or the MEPs even isn't of interest to the average citizen. They just need the coziness of being an EU citizen.

It isnt about prosperity although as Europeans you would have thought a post exit trading arrangement could have been sorted by both sides ages ago, but then when did politicians give a damn about the man in the street anywhere. No it is about what is best for the long term. Federal Europe, common tax, one size fits all Or decide what is best for your country.

I will dip back in in 98 days to see the glee endlessly expressed by forum members over Spanish salad produce rotting in lorries in Calais , Welsh lamb having to be eaten by UK customers, Irish farmers dodging armed barricades on the border, chaos on healthcare for expats etc etc

98 days to go and no one has a clue what is going to happen apart from the EU with their backstop trump card and the Tories with their No Deal trump card.
1. Find the Take It Outside forum. It's the one this thread is in.
2. Click the button marked New Topic.
3. Title the thread EU weaknesses.
4. List some of the weaknesses.
5. Post thread.

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Welcome back

If you want to start a thread about EU weeknesses, feel free. No one is stopping you.

Good luck
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Old Aug 2nd 2019, 12:02 am
  #12116  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by olivefarmer View Post
It really is just an echo chamber in this part of the forum.

you are all just braying the same stuff over and over.

No threads on EU weaknesses. For example , They still havent sorted migration. They still haven't got transparency on the top jobs. Just winning candidates parachuted in from nowhere. Still these things and the general ( unchanged of course) direction of the EU determined not by the people or the MEPs even isn't of interest to the average citizen. They just need the coziness of being an EU citizen.

It isnt about prosperity although as Europeans you would have thought a post exit trading arrangement could have been sorted by both sides ages ago, but then when did politicians give a damn about the man in the street anywhere. No it is about what is best for the long term. Federal Europe, common tax, one size fits all Or decide what is best for your country.

I will dip back in in 98 days to see the glee endlessly expressed by forum members over Spanish salad produce rotting in lorries in Calais , Welsh lamb having to be eaten by UK customers, Irish farmers dodging armed barricades on the border, chaos on healthcare for expats etc etc

98 days to go and no one has a clue what is going to happen apart from the EU with their backstop trump card and the Tories with their No Deal trump card.
There are many many valid criticisms about the EU however for the UK - as shown by the leaked memo today of the governments 'worst case' scenario for October 1st if nothing else, and Johnson starting to throw out promises of money to some industries that will be negatively impacted- it seems Johnson ad his fellow Brexiters quite willing to play Russian Roulette with Britain's economic future.
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Old Aug 2nd 2019, 6:48 am
  #12117  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Welcome back

If you want to start a thread about EU weeknesses, feel free. No one is stopping you.

Good luck
That would make a change to this thread forever trying to expose UK weaknesses
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Old Aug 2nd 2019, 7:31 am
  #12118  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by olivefarmer View Post
... Spanish salad produce rotting in lorries in Calais , Welsh lamb having to be eaten by UK customers, Irish farmers dodging armed barricades on the border, chaos on healthcare for expats etc etc
...
The Brexit that leavers voted for in a nutshell.
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Old Aug 2nd 2019, 7:52 am
  #12119  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
The Brexit that leavers voted for in a nutshell.
Whatever we do though don't mention the cosseted subsidized UK farmers... Free money, first up the front for every hand-out going. Talk about anything but that truth.
That's what made the other poster return
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Old Aug 2nd 2019, 8:01 am
  #12120  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by olivefarmer View Post
...No threads on EU weaknesses. For example , They still havent sorted migration....
Bit like saying they haven't sorted the weather.

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