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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Jun 4th 2019, 2:54 pm
  #10756  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Bonzodog View Post



I doubt if Remainiacs would even recognise a nice chicken from a clapped out Battery Hen, which a lot of so called chicken actually is.
I think you shouldn't be so rude about our Prime Minister.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 2:58 pm
  #10757  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Bonzodog View Post



I doubt if Remainiacs would even recognise a nice chicken from a clapped out Battery Hen, which a lot of so called chicken actually is.
Just shows yet again the ignorance of some Brexiters .
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 3:04 pm
  #10758  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Remainiacs don't have a high opinion of their fellow Brits - they can't even vote the right way yet alone make choices on the chicken they eat!
The declining view of "Britain" isn't limited to "remainiacs". In case you weren't aware, you rather need to be British to be a "remainiac". The rest of the world (about 1000x the relative handful of "remainiacs") just looks on with pity.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 3:26 pm
  #10759  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I can

However, assuming hypothetically that what you say is correct, it also doesn't mean that the source and the chlorination must be indicated. I'm pretty certain the trade negotiators would like some input into labelling, especially if they know there's public resistance to the product. And the retailer is hardly likely to be eager to point it out either, if it potentially damages his profits.
In the US, retailers state 'no antibiotics', 'no hormones', 'non-GMO' etc against the wishes of the producers precisely because they know the public (Consumers) are informed and prefer to avoid these things. I can imagine this being a big selling point in UK retail. I'm not saying they will say 'crappy food from America washed in Chlorine'; but they might say 'locally sourced British chicken not washed in chlorine'.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 3:32 pm
  #10760  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
In the US, retailers state 'no antibiotics', 'no hormones', 'non-GMO' etc against the wishes of the producers precisely because they know the public (Consumers) are informed and prefer to avoid these things. I can imagine this being a big selling point in UK retail. I'm not saying they will say 'crappy food from America washed in Chlorine'; but they might say 'locally sourced British chicken not washed in chlorine'.
We already have all those things available produced in the UK and EU , apart from US chlorine washed chicken. And hormone beef,which is illegal in the EU .
Even here in " backward '" Portugal where I am at the moment there is a thriving organic food industry...
The US has nothing to offer which is better than we already have, but a lot less that is not as good...

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Old Jun 4th 2019, 5:02 pm
  #10761  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

The NHS is on Trumps shopping list as. Confirmed at the press conference with May.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 5:14 pm
  #10762  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
In the US, retailers state 'no antibiotics', 'no hormones', 'non-GMO' etc against the wishes of the producers precisely because they know the public (Consumers) are informed and prefer to avoid these things. I can imagine this being a big selling point in UK retail. I'm not saying they will say 'crappy food from America washed in Chlorine'; but they might say 'locally sourced British chicken not washed in chlorine'.
They might.

Alternatively, the UK's minimum standards might be quietly harmonised with the US's and neither product labelled as containing cleansing chlorine, with the consumer left to deduce for himself that unless otherwise indicated that could well be the case.

You can argue till the cows come home about the finer points of whether the product is damaging and to what degree, about what attitude consumers have to quality and about who has what insulting opinions about the discretion of consumers but I'm just not keen on the lowering of a minimum standard that is there for a very good reason. The "let the consumer decide" argument is not a great one in my opinion unless we can be absolutely sure the consumer is well and properly informed. A stronger trading partner with a bully at its head, a weak bargaining position and a desperation to get deals signed quickly don't augur well in that regard as far as I'm concerned.

Whatever it is that prevents individual states of the US suing against trade protectionism if one of their number refuses to sell the product of another almost certainly won't be applying in the case of a US / UK trade deal.

And given the length of time this matter of lower standard cheap food being dumped on us has been being discussed, if it really is as straightforward as the US only selling us food produced to our existing standards or the information about the inferior product being easily available to the consumer via very clear labelling as to origin and chlorine or hormone content, why hasn't anybody stepped up to firmly reassure us that that would definitely be the case, rather than arguing that it really isn't all that harmful or saying we can always choose not to buy it?

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Old Jun 4th 2019, 5:42 pm
  #10763  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Did anyone notice that UKIP's leaderless yet again?

Batshit resigned on Sunday.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 6:15 pm
  #10764  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
The NHS is on Trumps shopping list as. Confirmed at the press conference with May.
Although apparently he had to be told what NHS means before answering
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 6:43 pm
  #10765  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Somebody said something about a budget over 120 billion. That's all he (and lobbyists for US healthcare & pharma producers) need to know.

So, Trump says "no deal Brexit will be great for you guys". All while thinking... "and put you in a position where we can demand you give us the NHS or else we let you sit and rot away on your little loser island over there".

The vultures are indeed circling as predicted. But voters knew that when they voted, so no worries.

Last edited by amideislas; Jun 4th 2019 at 7:09 pm.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 7:24 pm
  #10766  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Somebody said something about a budget over 120 billion. That's all he (and lobbyists for US healthcare & pharma producers) need to know.
So, Trump says "no deal Brexit will be great for you guys". All while thinking... "and put you in a position where we can demand you give us the NHS or else we let you sit and rot away on your little loser island over there".
The vultures are indeed circling.
It's the same wherever the US goes Ami. Batter down the doors screaming 'unfair competition' undercut local trade, agriculture, services, then squeeze and throttle all competition and suck the life out if communities, making it totally dependent on the particular corporate. Phyzer did it in Ramsgate for years. The US mid-west is little more than a low wage red-necked desert worked by serfs for their corporates. The truth here is very simple. The US is the world's most protectionist market and economy. Ask any competition that's dared to venture ober there.
Competition? The US doesn't know the meaning if the word, because the most foul and abusive phrase any US corporate can encounter is local diversity. How they detest the idea and it's impact on their profits.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 8:11 pm
  #10767  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

There's One Subject in the U.K. That's as Toxic as Brexit. Trump Just Waded Into It

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Old Jun 4th 2019, 10:27 pm
  #10768  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
They might.

Alternatively, the UK's minimum standards might be quietly harmonised with the US's and neither product labelled as containing cleansing chlorine, with the consumer left to deduce for himself that unless otherwise indicated that could well be the case.

You can argue till the cows come home about the finer points of whether the product is damaging and to what degree, about what attitude consumers have to quality and about who has what insulting opinions about the discretion of consumers but I'm just not keen on the lowering of a minimum standard that is there for a very good reason. The "let the consumer decide" argument is not a great one in my opinion unless we can be absolutely sure the consumer is well and properly informed. A stronger trading partner with a bully at its head, a weak bargaining position and a desperation to get deals signed quickly don't augur well in that regard as far as I'm concerned.

Whatever it is that prevents individual states of the US suing against trade protectionism if one of their number refuses to sell the product of another almost certainly won't be applying in the case of a US / UK trade deal.

And given the length of time this matter of lower standard cheap food being dumped on us has been being discussed, if it really is as straightforward as the US only selling us food produced to our existing standards or the information about the inferior product being easily available to the consumer via very clear labelling as to origin and chlorine or hormone content, why hasn't anybody stepped up to firmly reassure us that that would definitely be the case, rather than arguing that it really isn't all that harmful or saying we can always choose not to buy it?
First of all, thanks for a rational, reasonable response. There's an interesting debate to be had here, and this just might be the way to have it. I'm passionate about food quality and safety, and proud to be in CA where they take this stuff seriously and ashamed to be associated with the 'Fed' side of things, where they take it less seriously. CA is virtually at war with Trump's administration on many fronts (abortion, climate change, food, drug policy, immigration, etc) and thankfully, given the size of CA's economy, CA can't be pushed around. CA and UK are about the same in terms of GDP, so I do think there are similarities.

I think it's early days for this particular topic so I'm not surprised the 'assurances' you are seeking aren't out there, yet; Brexit hasn't happened yet, and we don't know if it will be a hard or soft Brexit (if at all) so I would not expect details to be forthcoming.

ETA - for interesting reading related to your comment "Whatever it is that prevents individual states of the US suing against trade protectionism if one of their number refuses to sell the product of another almost certainly won't be applying in the case of a US / UK trade deal." - you can read this - https://blog.humanesociety.org/2018/...amendment.html - attempts to undermine the rights of states (they failed). https://www.ciwf.com/news/2018/12/br...-in-the-senate

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Old Jun 5th 2019, 7:06 am
  #10769  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
First of all, thanks for a rational, reasonable response. There's an interesting debate to be had here, and this just might be the way to have it. I'm passionate about food quality and safety, and proud to be in CA where they take this stuff seriously and ashamed to be associated with the 'Fed' side of things, where they take it less seriously. CA is virtually at war with Trump's administration on many fronts (abortion, climate change, food, drug policy, immigration, etc) and thankfully, given the size of CA's economy, CA can't be pushed around. CA and UK are about the same in terms of GDP, so I do think there are similarities.
I think it's early days for this particular topic so I'm not surprised the 'assurances' you are seeking aren't out there, yet; Brexit hasn't happened yet, and we don't know if it will be a hard or soft Brexit (if at all) so I would not expect details to be forthcoming.
ETA - for interesting reading related to your comment "Whatever it is that prevents individual states of the US suing against trade protectionism if one of their number refuses to sell the product of another almost certainly won't be applying in the case of a US / UK trade deal." - you can read this - https://blog.humanesociety.org/2018/...amendment.html - attempts to undermine the rights of states (they failed). https://www.ciwf.com/news/2018/12/br...-in-the-senate
When/if people lose control over what enters their mouths, they truly have regressed to slavery:- in this case to the US food industry, and it's revolting practices.
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Old Jun 5th 2019, 10:06 am
  #10770  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
AIUI, the incidence of salmonella infection is higher in the US than in the EU, this has been set alongside the process of chlorination to "disinfect" slaughtered chicken to produce the rules. So, regardless of state standards, regardless of insistence on the relative quality of US chicken, there is rationale behind the restriction. In addition, why on earth should the UK import chicken from the other side of the Atlantic, when equivalent product can be sourced closer to home - and why on earth should the UK allow itself to be bullied into accepting US standards? If those who live in the US choose to have their own standards, so be it - please extend the courtesy of recognizing those who disagree with you.

The "US knows best" attitude seems to be an aggressive marketing campaign by the current adminstration, be it in terms of healthcare, food standards or the use of non-US technology in order to export a protectionist philosophy. Luckily, it is being seen as such.....
If I might add , it's also seems to be standard practice in USA to feed all livestock on a food which has "growth enhancing additives" (hormones) mixed in at source.
After being infoed that all "states" set there own standards, I should imagine that some will not accept these contaminated products !
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