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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

amideislas Aug 6th 2016 7:53 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12021232)
But even more pissed off remainers! bwhahahahaha!

Sorry about that. - I just couldn't resist! :rofl:

Joking aside: No-one can see into the future no matter what side they're on & it's nowhere near impossible that the EU could collapse even before Brexit is complete & the most likely cause would be other member states voting for their own exit(s).

Because European anti-EU rhetoric until the referendum represented a fractional proportion of European sentiment, and also considering that pro-EU sentiment has only increased since the referendum, I tend to believe a collapse of the EU is just wishful (or rather, vindictive) thinking.

I personally know no European who shares those sentiments, nor anyone who even remotely senses any imminent collapse, in fact, consumer and business sentiments in Germany are at highs. That notion is about as much at the forefront of consciousness as the imminent extinction of rats.

But then, apparently only the British are privy to this secret. It's been in the British tabloids for nearly a decade now.

mfesharne Aug 6th 2016 8:16 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Frexit, Nexit or Oexit? Who will be next to leave the EU | Politics | The Guardian

amideislas Aug 6th 2016 8:30 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Yes, I know. British media has been talking about it for almost a decade, actually. It's a particular point of interest to Britons. Especially now, Britain needs justification and perhaps more importantly, vindication. And a collapse of the EU would satisfy that insecurity, even if it Britain would be amongst the worst sufferers. And it's rather consistent with the whole leave campaign irony; Yes, we know we'll suffer, but we'll be better off that way.

mfesharne Aug 6th 2016 8:41 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12021267)
Yes, I know. British media has been talking about it for almost a decade, actually. It's a particular point of interest to Britons. Especially now, Britain needs justification and perhaps more importantly, vindication. And a collapse of the EU would satisfy that insecurity, even if it Britain would be amongst the worst sufferers. And it's rather consistent with the whole leave campaign irony; Yes, we know we'll suffer, but we'll be better off that way.

With all due respect, if you don't appreciate the EU has been at risk of collapse for a significant period or that there are strong exit movements in a number of member states, you're in serious denial.

Full Definition of denial
1
: refusal to satisfy a request or desire
2
a (1) : refusal to admit the truth or reality (as of a statement or charge) (2) : assertion that an allegation is false
b : refusal to acknowledge a person or a thing : disavowal
3
: the opposing by the defendant of an allegation of the opposite party in a lawsuit
4
: self-denial
5
: negation in logic
6
: a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality

amideislas Aug 6th 2016 9:09 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
It seems a bit ironic that you can recognise it, but then continue to deny it. A rather twisted form of denial.

mfesharne Aug 6th 2016 9:16 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12021287)
It seems a bit ironic that you can recognise it, but then continue to deny it. A rather twisted form of denial.

I rather think you've proved my point...... Thank you. :lol:

amideislas Aug 6th 2016 9:35 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
This article explains much about the "Trump" phenomenon, but the psychology equally applies to the leave campaign (they are often compared). By the way, very same psychology employed by Hitler, ISIS, etc. A good read.

Why facts don’t matter

mfesharne Aug 6th 2016 9:44 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12021298)
This article explains much about the "Trump" phenomenon, but the psychology equally applies to the leave campaign (they are often compared).

Why facts don’t matter

Whilst I'm not sure what direct relevance a Trump related article has to do with a Post Brexit Thread it does rather well illustrate the denial (and indeed delusion) a Clinton supporter obviously has when the woman has blood on her her hands from the Benghazi debacle & even the FBI admit she did wrong in the email scandal....... so thank you again for proving my point with such eloquence. :)

amideislas Aug 6th 2016 9:46 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I rather think you've proved my point...... Thank you. :lol:

Dick Dasterdly Aug 6th 2016 11:09 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12021298)
This article explains much about the "Trump" phenomenon, but the psychology equally applies to the leave campaign (they are often compared). By the way, very same psychology employed by Hitler, ISIS, etc. A good read.

Why facts don’t matter

...and employed to a far far greater degree by the Remain campaign.

amideislas Aug 7th 2016 8:20 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Brexit, a matter of life and death

By the time the UK finalizes its EU divorce, many in the Leave camp may be long gone.


Leading U.K. Brexiteer and former Tory cabinet minister John Redwood has optimistically written that all the U.K. has to do is repeal the 1972 European Communities Act and, hey presto, Britain would be freed.


But Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond has said that hammering out these new deals — and making sure they do not disadvantage the U.K. — may take up to six years once the U.K. has officially withdrawn from the Union. Others, like former EU legal chief Jean-Claude Piris, have estimated a five to ten-year period.


During that time much will have changed in the U.K. and in the EU.
In the three years between the Brexit referendum and the European Parliament elections in 2019, 1.26 million British citizens over 65 will die and 2 million will reach the voting age of 18, according to Age U.K.


Given that 75 percent of young voters were in favor of Remain and 60 percent of over 65s voted to Leave, the pro-European camp will increase by 1 million and the Brexit camp go down by 756,000.

Red Eric Aug 7th 2016 8:47 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12021274)
With all due respect, if you don't appreciate the EU has been at risk of collapse for a significant period or that there are strong exit movements in a number of member states, you're in serious denial.

I can remember when Grexit was a long odds-on cert - only a case of when, not if, they said. You can't deny that it hasn't happened yet and is extremely unlikely to.

This wish for the EU to collapse though - where does it come from? What's at the heart of it? Why would a Leaver, cock-a-hoop with the referendum result, want the other 27 member states not to continue co-operating with each other in whatever manner they best see fit?

I can understand why some of the more powerful global forces don't like the EU but surely for the average individual in the UK who's just voted out, their joy should be unbounded by Brexit and that's it, full stop - shouldn't it? You've got what you want and the rest of the EU can heave a sigh of slightly resigned relief and get on with what it wants.

Or is it because you're living in an EU member state? - there is a solution to that, of course ;).

jimenato Aug 7th 2016 9:00 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12021513)

...This wish for the EU to collapse though - where does it come from? What's at the heart of it? Why would a Leaver, cock-a-hoop with the referendum result, want the other 27 member states not to continue co-operating with each other in whatever manner they best see fit?...

It's caused by insecurity and lack of confidence.

They know they've screwed up badly and been caught out by the disastrous leave vote which wasn't meant to happen.

They know that their spurious reasons for wanting to leave will never be fulfilled by Brexit and realise that all options from now on are bad.

The only thing that can 'save' them is collapse of the EU.

This will allow them to say 'There - we told you so - we knew we were right'.

mfesharne Aug 7th 2016 9:02 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12021513)
I can remember when Grexit was a long odds-on cert - only a case of when, not if, they said. You can't deny that it hasn't happened yet and is extremely unlikely to.

This wish for the EU to collapse though - where does it come from? What's at the heart of it? Why would a Leaver, cock-a-hoop with the referendum result, want the other 27 member states not to continue co-operating with each other in whatever manner they best see fit?

I can understand why some of the more powerful global forces don't like the EU but surely for the average individual in the UK who's just voted out, their joy should be unbounded by Brexit and that's it, full stop - shouldn't it? You've got what you want and the rest of the EU can heave a sigh of slightly resigned relief and get on with what it wants.

Or is it because you're living in an EU member state? - there is a solution to that, of course ;).

I've never said I'd like to see the EU collapse........ just (despite some here denying the fact) that there are a number of other EU member states that have strong exit movements & it's widely reported that at least some of those countries will have their own exit referendums before the Brexit is even complete........ And if I was a betting man (which I'm not) I'd put money on that very thing happening.

As I've repeatedly said, had the EU been willing to negotiate even a little more during the DC negotiations, I think the vote would have gone the other way.

The fact that they weren't prepared to do that is to me at least, direct proof of their arrogance & I'm sure, one of the major factors that swung the vote to leave.

Red Eric Aug 7th 2016 9:10 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12021521)
As I've repeatedly said, had the EU been willing to negotiate even a little more during the DC negotiations, I think the vote would have gone the other way.

The fact that they weren't prepared to do that is to me at least, direct proof of their arrogance & I'm sure, one of the major factors that swung the vote to leave.

It wasn't "a little more" that you and others are justifying this line with. It was a heck of a lot more and most of it probably wasn't even on Cameron's list anyway because he would have known that he couldn't get any deal that would require treaty change. He got what he could within that limit - and the EU view is that they gave a lot.


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