British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

amideislas Mar 7th 2017 10:05 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12199477)
I cannot recall who made that comment, it was on the BBC news in an interview from parliament

However a quick search brings the following.

The House of Lords' case for giving Parliament a 'meaningful vote' on Brexit is flawed

The practical flaw is found in the effect this amendment would have on Brexit negotiations. It is no secret that some EU leaders still believe that Britain can be persuaded to reverse its decision to leave; the EU, after all, has a history of trying to overturn democratic votes, even referendum decisions, a contempt for the electorate that partly explains why the integrationist project is failing. If those leaders believe that the British Parliament could reject any Brexit deal and instead continue our membership, they will have a strong incentive to offer the worst deal possible.

Full article :-

The House of Lords' case for giving Parliament a 'meaningful vote' on Brexit is flawed

Your above premise (in bold) is key to your entire argument.

If you can substantiate any of that premise, then you could have an argument. Unfortunately, it is demonstrably merely innuendo, and it's going to be rather difficult to substantiate that premise, and therefore, being your argument is dependent on that premise to have merit, your entire argument is equally flawed.

DaveLovesDee Mar 7th 2017 10:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12199495)
Your first premise is the key to your entire argument.

If you can substantiate any of that premise, then you could have an argument. Unfortunately, it is demonstrably merely innuendo, and it's going to be rather difficult to substantiate that premise, and therefore, being your argument is dependent on that premise to have merit, your entire argument is equally flawed.

Fred's post probably needs to be in the Fake News thread.........

Dick Dasterdly Mar 7th 2017 11:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12199477)
I cannot recall who made that comment, it was on the BBC news in an interview from parliament

However a quick search brings the following.

The House of Lords' case for giving Parliament a 'meaningful vote' on Brexit is flawed

The practical flaw is found in the effect this amendment would have on Brexit negotiations. It is no secret that some EU leaders still believe that Britain can be persuaded to reverse its decision to leave; the EU, after all, has a history of trying to overturn democratic votes, even referendum decisions, a contempt for the electorate that partly explains why the integrationist project is failing. If those leaders believe that the British Parliament could reject any Brexit deal and instead continue our membership, they will have a strong incentive to offer the worst deal possible.

Full article :-

The House of Lords' case for giving Parliament a 'meaningful vote' on Brexit is flawed

:goodpost:

Spot on

Hopefully this will hasten the demise of one unelected buch of idiots, just as Brexit appears to be hastening the demise of the unelected abomination of a dictatorship in Brussels.

:cool:

Dick Dasterdly Mar 7th 2017 11:42 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...ion/ar-AAnZGul

Good riddance
He always was a snake in the grass.

:thumbsup:

DaveLovesDee Mar 8th 2017 12:05 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12199535)
Hopefully this will hasten the demise of one unelected buch of idiots, just as Brexit appears to be hastening the demise of the unelected abomination of a dictatorship in Brussels.

The Tories spent enough years stuffing the Lords with those they rewarded for donations or favours. They could have spent that time reforming the Lords instead, but chose not to.

Apparently,from 2015, Elected House of Lords 'not a priority' for next Tory government. Until the Lords do something the Tories disagree with, obviously......


Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12199539)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...ion/ar-AAnZGul

Good riddance
He always was a snake in the grass.

He was doing his job as a member of the House of Lords!

But his sacking shows how petty and vindictive Theresa May can be, and how the Brexit negotiations are likely to end if she doesn't get what she believes is her right.

Fredbargate Mar 8th 2017 5:41 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12199492)
Did you notice the big word below The Telegraph that says Opinion in your link?

As for the bit I've made bold, some EU leaders probably believe the UK can be reasonable too.

Likewise your responses are only your opinion.

Vexcore Mar 8th 2017 7:21 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
This is an absolute scandal this makes our PM the middle man in negotiations and who wants to talk to a middle man its an embarrassment. We voted to leave the EU and trusted our government to do this on our behalf.... The house of Lords must be abolished now!.....

Scamp Mar 8th 2017 7:28 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12199149)
Well we can always start sending young children Down Pit Lad again to dig coal and reopen up all the cotton mills in the North West and start building ships again in Liverpool and Barrow In Furness.

Mmmm anyone seeing a pattern that all the hard work and graft was done in the North :lol:

Bloody southern shandy drinking poofs.

Northerners? Hard work? Graft?

Striking must really have taken it out of the poor blokes. :rofl::rofl:

amideislas Mar 8th 2017 7:51 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12199674)
This is an absolute scandal this makes our PM the middle man in negotiations and who wants to talk to a middle man its an embarrassment. We voted to leave the EU and trusted our government to do this on our behalf.... The house of Lords must be abolished now!.....

The entire brexit exercise has been an utter embarrassment, and you're worried about this?

Red Eric Mar 8th 2017 8:03 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12199477)
I cannot recall who made that comment, it was on the BBC news in an interview from parliament

It was Lord Bridges in his speech to the House of Lords - and his opinion was dismissed by the House. A winning percentage for the amendment of 57 to 43. I believe a majority of 1 vote is sufficient for a motion to be carried.

Anyway, it's going back to the Commons now, along with the other one, so it'll have to be debated and voted on again.

InVinoVeritas Mar 8th 2017 8:13 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12199689)
The entire brexit exercise has been an utter embarrassment, and you're worried about this?

Well it's going to be pretty embarrassing to give notice under Article 50 (which is irreversible) and then not to be able to agree a deal with the EU because the Lords want the right to send it back for renegotiation.

I think May has to get this amendment removed otherwise it's plain insane.

Red Eric Mar 8th 2017 8:22 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12199701)
Well it's going to be pretty embarrassing to give notice under Article 50 (which is irreversible) and then not to be able to agree a deal with the EU because the Lords want the right to send it back for renegotiation.

I think May has to get this amendment removed otherwise it's plain insane.

The Lords want Parliament to have a vote on the outcome - you know, like the European Parliament is getting.

And did anyone actually decide whether giving notice under Article 50 is irreversible? I don't recall that. Somebody tried to bring a court case to test the matter but it was dismissed at the first stage ie before it could go far enough for a decision to be made.

amideislas Mar 8th 2017 8:30 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Britain voted to leave. So... leave.

Or do you expect something more than just "leaving"? Want to "negotiate" something? "Benefits", perhaps? (that would be a common British expectation).

Unfortunately, the "rest of the world" isn't British - you're on your own.

Anything else? OK, move along then...

Red Eric Mar 8th 2017 8:35 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
They'd like to negotiate how much they're allowed to give the EU in settlement of the split, for starters. And how many immigrants the EU will allow them to have. And how much of the UK's financial and manufacturing sectors they should hand over. That sort of stuff. It's complicated.

InVinoVeritas Mar 8th 2017 8:35 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12199706)
The Lords want Parliament to have a vote on the outcome - you know, like the European Parliament is getting.

And did anyone actually decide whether giving notice under Article 50 is irreversible? I don't recall that. Somebody tried to bring a court case to test the matter but it was dismissed at the first stage ie before it could go far enough for a decision to be made.

It may well be reversible by the UK but it would require the unanimous agreement of the EU-27 - think that'll be easy?


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:03 pm.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.