British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Wol Jul 16th 2016 10:09 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
A well written piece in the Torygraph by Charles Moore yesterday, which included:

>>This expectation of freedom ought to bring confidence. One of the psychological effects of EU membership has been to make us think that we can’t do things. “Europe”, sometimes unfairly, has been used as a reason for saying No. It has also, over a couple of generations, taught our governments not to believe in their own capacities. Britain has subconsciously imported the Brussels model of government by officials rather than elected politicians. How often were we told in the Cameron/Osborne era, that such and such a person or authority was to be trusted because he/she/it was “independent”. A more accurate word would have been “bureaucratic”. <<

Precisely. All the "frit" posters seem to have lost the will to determine their own futures via an accountable government. The theory that all would be well in the world if only we could all agree on everything is just that - a nice, cuddly theory. Life isn't like that (unfortunately).

Just because (probably) the majority of Continentals have given up on self government in the hope that everyone will agree to whatever is handed down to them, doesn't mean that the UK should stay in the same boat. A majority of those who could be bothered to vote agreed.

There will be tough times ahead, not least because being attached at the tit for so long means that there are few left who can negotiate on the UK's behalf. I understand that New Zealand has offered cadres who could lead the way in this respect - take them up on it: don't let the Humphries say it's all a bit too much.

amideislas Jul 16th 2016 10:25 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I think this may be a more accurate characterisation of Britain's unique political character:

British Exceptionalism and the European Union


The 1930 headline in the Daily Mirror, “Fog in Channel, Continent Cut Off,” may or may not be apocryphal, but it is revealing of the islanders’ mindset.


There may also be an alternative dynamic at work here. For most of the post-Second World War period, most of Western and Northern Europe has enjoyed coalition governments and coalition politics.


The art of compromise, of creating friendships and mutual obligations across a political divide is essential for any continental European politician who wants to succeed.

[This creates a political class which is poor at immediate problem-solving — and good at vision and long-term planning.]


But in the UK, the norm has been majority governments. A British prime minister is traditionally used to getting his or her way, whether it be with cabinet, party or Parliament. It breeds a different approach — decide and implement, not discuss and compromise.


This creates a political class which is good at immediate problem-solving — and poor at vision and long-term planning.

In other words, British politics is highly tactical, while European politics is slow and strategic.

EMR Jul 16th 2016 10:40 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Wol (Post 12003937)
A well written piece in the Torygraph by Charles Moore yesterday, which included:

>>This expectation of freedom ought to bring confidence. One of the psychological effects of EU membership has been to make us think that we can’t do things. “Europe”, sometimes unfairly, has been used as a reason for saying No. It has also, over a couple of generations, taught our governments not to believe in their own capacities. Britain has subconsciously imported the Brussels model of government by officials rather than elected politicians. How often were we told in the Cameron/Osborne era, that such and such a person or authority was to be trusted because he/she/it was “independent”. A more accurate word would have been “bureaucratic”. <<

Precisely. All the "frit" posters seem to have lost the will to determine their own futures via an accountable government. The theory that all would be well in the world if only we could all agree on everything is just that - a nice, cuddly theory. Life isn't like that (unfortunately).

Just because (probably) the majority of Continentals have given up on self government in the hope that everyone will agree to whatever is handed down to them, doesn't mean that the UK should stay in the same boat. A majority of those who could be bothered to vote agreed.

There will be tough times ahead, not least because being attached at the tit for so long means that there are few left who can negotiate on the UK's behalf. I understand that New Zealand has offered cadres who could lead the way in this respect - take them up on it: don't let the Humphries say it's all a bit too much.



Yet another antipodean with little or no knowledge of the reality of life and government in the UK..
Gaining their knowledge via the internet and the long discredited UK popular press.
The only ones in the UK who will suffer because of brexit will be the very ones who were conned into thinking that it would be them who will gsin.
There will not be more jobs, there will not be more homes, there will not be lower rents, there will not be an improved NHS, there will not be higher wages, there will not be noticeably lower immigration..

The last thing brexiters will accept is to hand over negotiations to those with no knowledge of how both the UK and EU function .
Government is accountable as the Tories will find out if they rush to a brexit that negstively impacts on those May now says is their constituency.

amideislas Jul 16th 2016 10:53 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Great article, this. Worth a read no matter what side of the fence you're on, and will bring a chuckle or two.
Theresa May’s Three Musketeers

EMR Jul 16th 2016 11:09 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12003955)
Great article, this. Worth a read no matter what side of the fence you're on, and will bring a chuckle or two.
Theresa May’s Three Musketeers


Liam Fox is a local MP opinions on his character political opportunism are very divided as you would expect.
He is the poster boy for our very large retired and elderly population.

May indeed has in one act destined 3 brexit rivals to the dustbin of political history when their failure to deliver is revealed.

GeniB Jul 16th 2016 11:12 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12003955)
Great article, this. Worth a read no matter what side of the fence you're on, and will bring a chuckle or two.
Theresa May’s Three Musketeers

I love that!! It's a 'put your money where your mouth is' situation for them

I have spent quite a bit of time since Brexit (and all the ensuing 'surprises' that occurred afterward) studying Theresa May..(even her birthday horoscope ) and I have to say I am becoming more and more impressed with this woman.

Her first cabinet choices had me shrieking in dismay.. but now I do feel she IS playing the long game. As a Libran she will naturally want to be fair and balanced.Naturally want to give people chances. She has already said that she wants to learn and wants to do what the majority of the entire United Kingdom want. She has a reputation for hard work,calmness and for listening.but also capable of making the tough decisions . I'm now happy to wait and see.. which I wasn't able to say a week ago :starsmile:

JACHA Jul 16th 2016 11:19 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Gen. People who have libran in there horoscope can also be a bit schizophrenic. Especially women. They are usually game players and can associate themselves only with people who they can get something from. On the plus side they are supposed to be excellent lovers!
Sorry for the lighthearted comments.

GeniB Jul 16th 2016 11:30 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 (Post 12003708)
:lol: You are silly.


No -- really ...that reply is!:rofl:

paulry Jul 16th 2016 2:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12003962)
I love that!! It's a 'put your money where your mouth is' situation for them

I have spent quite a bit of time since Brexit (and all the ensuing 'surprises' that occurred afterward) studying Theresa May..(even her birthday horoscope ) and I have to say I am becoming more and more impressed with this woman.

Her first cabinet choices had me shrieking in dismay.. but now I do feel she IS playing the long game. As a Libran she will naturally want to be fair and balanced.Naturally want to give people chances. She has already said that she wants to learn and wants to do what the majority of the entire United Kingdom want. She has a reputation for hard work,calmness and for listening.but also capable of making the tough decisions . I'm now happy to wait and see.. which I wasn't able to say a week ago :starsmile:

:rofl: Have you asked Mystic Meg for her opinion?

...Or how about Freddie the Wonder Horse? :hysterical:

Freddie the Wonder Horse is going for Brexit

Bipat Jul 16th 2016 2:12 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12003955)
Great article, this. Worth a read no matter what side of the fence you're on, and will bring a chuckle or two.
Theresa May’s Three Musketeers

Is this article written by the same Denis MacShane late of Belmarsh and Brixton prison, in a relationship with Vicky Pryce late of North London prison???:lol::lol:

GeniB Jul 16th 2016 6:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by JACHA (Post 12003964)
Gen. People who have libran in there horoscope can also be a bit schizophrenic. Especially women. They are usually game players and can associate themselves only with people who they can get something from. On the plus side they are supposed to be excellent lovers!
Sorry for the lighthearted comments.


Don't apologise we NEED some levity :starsmile:

Don't know where you get 'schizophrenia' from? Thats an actual inherited illness... (she does have type 1 diabetes ,but i don't think that counts) What is usually said about Librans is that they are indecisive (need to be just and fair to all sides) and thus procrastinate .
Not seeing that in her. yet What might happen is that she can't stand the strain /weight of this difficult task.. She therefore has to have a strong supportive partner (tick) and some really good people on her team (?)

GeniB Jul 16th 2016 6:05 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12004033)
:rofl: Have you asked Mystic Meg for her opinion?



...Or how about Freddie the Wonder Horse? :hysterical:

Freddie the Wonder Horse is going for Brexit�


No but I believe she is a neighbour of yours and he's verrrry good friend!!!:o

Fredbargate Jul 17th 2016 7:25 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
In a phone call to the new PM, her Australian counterpart Malcolm Turnbull said he urgently wanted to open up trading between the two countries.

UK offered Brexit free trade deal with Australia - BBC News

JACHA Jul 17th 2016 7:59 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Great. That's all we need. A free trade agreement with the UK with the Aussies coming off second best as per normal with the commonwealth cousins.

Bipat Jul 17th 2016 8:41 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by JACHA (Post 12004427)
Great. That's all we need. A free trade agreement with the UK with the Aussies coming off second best as per normal with the commonwealth cousins.

Why should Australia come off second best? Nobody gets all they want and both sides have to compromise, that is what negotiation means. Both sides have a 'bottom line'.
Which Commonwealth cousins are you referring to? For most their history means they are not going to be again 'pushovers'.
UK will be making trade deals with many countries post Brexit.
USA, Australia. India is very keen to make the agreement that they have been trying to negotiate with the EU for 9 years.

Brexit free-trade deals planned with the USA and Australia


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