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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Jan 27th 2017, 11:29 am
  #11971  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
At this point we are too far into it to reverse that decision.
No, we're not. We might be when Theresa May triggers Article 50 though.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 11:32 am
  #11972  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
With respect, that is complete and utter horse shit.
To achieve even half of the influence and benefits it now enjoys as the global front door to the world's largest economy, Britain needs to throw together as many trade agreements as it can with whoever it can, as quickly as it can.

In pursuit of that, Britain will no longer represent any significant economic or political power in any position to command favour. Britain will be negotiating from a position of weakness and desperation.

May is already being forced to suck up to one of the most openly self-serving leaders on the planet. He's not stupid. He knows he can have his way with Britain, and she'll just have to suck it up. She's desperate...

And that's somehow utter horseshit?
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 11:35 am
  #11973  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
No, we're not.
What I've read suggests that we are because going back on it would likely trigger more political and economic upheaval as well as a general election that the Conservatives are not confident they would win.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 11:40 am
  #11974  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
What I've read suggests that we are because going back on it would likely trigger more political and economic upheaval as well as a general election that the Conservatives are not confident they would win.
I'm with you there but it is not and never has been a binding or irreversible decision. Politically extremely volatile though, obviously.

Good to see a Leaver acknowledging economic upheaval
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 11:40 am
  #11975  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
To achieve even half of the influence and benefits it now enjoys as the global front door to the world's largest economy, Britain needs to throw together as many trade agreements as it can with whoever it can, as quickly as it can.

In pursuit of that, Britain will no longer represent any significant economic or political power in any position to command favour. Britain will be negotiating from a position of weakness and desperation.

May is already being forced to suck up to one of the most openly self-serving leaders on the planet. He's not stupid. He knows he can have his way with Britain, and she'll just have to suck it up. She's desperate...

And that's somehow utter horseshit?
The EU isn't the world's largest economy, you need to get that one into your head. It is arguably the world's fastest shrinking economy but by no metric is it the world's largest.

Your comments are utter horseshit because not a single one of them seems to have any basis in fact. They are just negative conjecture from an obvious Europhile and bitter Remain supporter.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 11:43 am
  #11976  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I'm with you there but it is not and never has been a binding or irreversible decision. Politically extremely volatile though, obviously.

Good to see a Leaver acknowledging economic upheaval
There was definitely economic upheaval after the referendum but that has now stabilised and causing more of it at this point isn't going to do anybody any favours.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 11:48 am
  #11977  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
The EU isn't the world's largest economy, you need to get that one into your head. It is arguably the world's fastest shrinking economy but by no metric is it the world's largest.

Your comments are utter horseshit because not a single one of them seems to have any basis in fact. They are just negative conjecture from an obvious Europhile and bitter Remain supporter.
Oh, yes it is the world's largest economy, and until now, Britain has been the giobally-preferred front door to it. That's precisely why such a modest island nation could sustain a much larger economic and political footprint. Britain has been punching well above its weight for decades. Especially after the fall of the "empire".

Without carrying that card, Britain represents only the face value of the island economy and politics it inhabits. It's no secret to any world leader that Britain is desperate to maintain its rank on the world stage, and that it will soon have much less to leverage.

And that means a position of weakness, not strength. If you think Trump doesn't see right through that, you ought to read his book.

Last edited by amideislas; Jan 27th 2017 at 11:52 am.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:01 pm
  #11978  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Oh, yes it is the world's largest economy, and until now, Britain has been the giobally-preferred front door to it. That's precisely why such a modest island nation could sustain a much larger economic and political footprint. Britain has been punching well above its weight for decades. Especially after the fall of the "empire".

Without carrying that card, Britain represents only the face value of the island economy and politics it inhabits. It's no secret to any world leader that Britain is desperate to maintain its rank on the world stage, and that it will soon have much less to leverage.

And that means a position of weakness, not strength. If you think Trump doesn't see right through that, you ought to read his book.

She has made a start! even though the main talks are still unofficial until Brexit.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/1...ssion-to-india
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:02 pm
  #11979  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Oh, yes it is the world's largest economy, and until now, Britain has been the giobally-preferred front door to it. That's precisely why such a modest island nation could sustain a much larger economic and political footprint. Britain has been punching well above its weight for decades. Especially after the fall of the "empire".

Without carrying that card, Britain represents only the face value of the island economy and politics it inhabits. It's no secret to any world leader that Britain is desperate to maintain its rank on the world stage, and that it will soon have much less to leverage.

And that means a position of weakness, not strength. If you think Trump doesn't see right through that, you ought to read his book.
No it isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_GDP_(nominal)

Look at that page. You have at least 2 highly respected international sources telling you that you are wrong. The UN figure that suggests otherwise is well over a year old and since then the EU economy has shrunk while the US economy has grown.

And if a "modest island nation" like Australia or can function perfectly well with a smaller population, economy and military presence than Britain then I don't think a Britain outside the EU will have all that much to worry about. I would personally prefer it if we didn't so heavily involve ourselves in global affairs anyway.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:15 pm
  #11980  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
No it isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_GDP_(nominal)

Look at that page. You have at least 2 highly respected international sources telling you that you are wrong. The UN figure that suggests otherwise is well over a year old and since then the EU economy has shrunk while the US economy has grown.

And if a "modest island nation" like Australia or can function perfectly well with a smaller population, economy and military presence than Britain then I don't think a Britain outside the EU will have all that much to worry about. I would personally prefer it if we didn't so heavily involve ourselves in global affairs anyway.
Consumer market of 65 million, just under $3T GDP (formerly representing a market of over 400 million, and just under $17T GDP) likely to fall closer to $2T after leaving the EU.

80% services economy, 70% of that in non-exportable public services. Few natural resources, tiny manufacturing sector (and most of that tooled to serve the European single market), island nation with generous social system, aging population, limited growth potential.

Oh, the awesome power...
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:18 pm
  #11981  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Consumer market of 65 million, just under $3T GDP (formerly representing a market of over 400 million, and just under $17T GDP) likely to fall closer to $2T after leaving the EU.

80% services economy, 70% of that in non-exportable public services. Few natural resources, tiny manufacturing sector (and most of that tooled to serve the European single market), island nation with generous social system, aging population, limited growth potential.

Oh, the awesome power...
Again, those are all similarities with Australia and Canada and Japan as well for that matter.

I have never seen any convincing argument as to why Britain cannot function as an independent nation. Not one.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:23 pm
  #11982  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post

I have never seen any convincing argument as to why Britain cannot function as an independent nation. Not one.
I haven't either. I've seen plenty of evidence that suggests it will be smaller, poorer, less influential on the global stage, and highly subservient to one or another superpower (as we already see happening with Trumperica), but nothing that suggests Britain cannot function.

Unfortunately, British expectations aren't consistent with the evidence. And you how the electorate responds to becoming poorer, right? The political implications? Yeah, that...

Last edited by amideislas; Jan 27th 2017 at 12:25 pm.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:27 pm
  #11983  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
less influential on the global stage
And that matters why? We're a small island nation of 60-odd million people who used to run most of the planet but don't anymore. It would actually be more beneficial for our economy and safer for the population if we stopped sticking our noses into the business of other nations and instead just focused on our own.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:38 pm
  #11984  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
And that matters why? We're a small island nation of 60-odd million people who used to run most of the planet but don't anymore. It would actually be more beneficial for our economy and safer for the population if we stopped sticking our noses into the business of other nations and instead just focused on our own.
And all this time I'd been led to believe that Britain voted to "free" itself from the EU so that it could "flourish" as an independent, "global" leader again. Of course, that depends on becoming rather dependent on the US and Mr. Trump, which is exactly what Ms. May (while closing eyes and holding nose) is doing.

In fact, where this exchange began is you rubbishing the article that illustrates how Britain is actually becoming less independent as a result of leaving the EU. And frankly, considering Britain's options now, and the absolute need to do anything to get Trumpy's favour (it's a must-do, no other option here), that assertion's not all that far fetched. In fact, it's pretty realistic. You should actually read the article. It's quite an eye-opener.
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Old Jan 27th 2017, 12:51 pm
  #11985  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
I haven't either. I've seen plenty of evidence that suggests it will be smaller, poorer, less influential on the global stage, and highly subservient to one or another superpower (as we already see happening with Trumperica), but nothing that suggests Britain cannot function.

Unfortunately, British expectations aren't consistent with the evidence. And you how the electorate responds to becoming poorer, right? The political implications? Yeah, that...
£1 billion worth in deals secured pre Brexit in just two days, a lot more to come from there post Brexit.
Why should making trade deals result in UK being subservient? (Apart from being subservient to the rules and laws of the EU!)

Has Mrs May stated that she wants to be a "Global leader again"? Or just more involved with that world outside of the EU member countries, a world that you seem to be nervous of!
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