British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

amideislas Jul 8th 2016 9:44 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 11997149)
No, it inflamed remainiacs' race card obsessions. The reminder that that it provided to me was the porous state of the EU border, compliments of Mama Merkel who invited these men in on behalf of all the member states of the EU - without consulting the membership first and then expected them to be spread out across the EU. No red herring there, it is precisely the lack of control of Britains borders that triggered people to vote "Leave". Race hardly, if at all came into it. The race card is the true red herring :thumbdown:

Yet, as a matter of record, the UK is, and has been immune to that.

But we voted to "solve" that nonexistent problem with a tactic that will only result in very real problems of much greater magnitude, on the basis of completely misleading rhetoric like this.

DaveLovesDee Jul 8th 2016 9:52 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 11997151)
Yet, as a matter of record, the UK is, and has been immune to that.

But we voted to "solve" that nonexistent problem with a tactic that will only result in very real problems of much greater magnitude. All because of completely misleading rhetoric like this.

I wonder how residents of Australia would feel if Australians in other countries could decide their home nation's immigration policy.

Mind you, I hear that the Aborigines are still pissed at the immigrant who've taken over THEIR country :p.

JACHA Jul 8th 2016 10:10 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Dave. Yes the aborigines are still pissed and so are all the English kids whose parents sent then out here for what they thought would be a better life. Turned out that for a lot of those young children it wasn't a better life. Australia has a lot of people who feel they have been hard done by. There is no easy resolution for people who feel aggrieved. I'm not saying they do not have reasons to feel the way they do.
I personally would not like someone else determining our immigration policy. Bad enough that we have some one in another country being our head of state(I think the queen is amazing by the way). I am just trying to get a grip on what the issues were and was the whole for and against case explained. The BREXIT does not affect me in anyway. I just think it is sad that people have been verbally abused on this forum for voting one way or the other.

paulry Jul 8th 2016 11:50 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11997155)
I wonder how residents of Australia would feel if Australians in other countries could decide their home nation's immigration policy.

Mind you, I hear that the Aborigines are still pissed at the immigrant who've taken over THEIR country :p.

Lots of Australians vote when abroad and no-one here thinks they are not entitled to do so.

SultanOfSwing Jul 8th 2016 1:46 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 11997137)
Ah the race card again :rolleyes:

Today I learned European is a race. Who knew.

Anyway, aren't those people in the poster refugees? And aren't refugees handled by the Geneva Convention, rather than the EU? So that's another so called 'issue' that isn't going to change one bit.

But of course, a warm, fuzzy sense of self-satisfaction that we've 'stuck it to the Germans' again outweighs any kind of common sense or critical thinking. Much better to go build a statue of the man who dedicated his life to making sure he lost his job (but didn't forget to make sure he continues to pocket £90K a year from the organization he hated so much).

la mancha Jul 8th 2016 2:05 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I see the Holy Grail of racism, ‘that’ poster, is doing the rounds again. I said this a few days ago but I will repeat it for those who didn’t see it or chose to ignore it. ‘That’ poster was a brilliant piece of campaigning. The strategy behind it was to make a point that we have to take back control of our borders. Read ‘that’ poster. Nowhere does it mention immigration. It shows fit young men streaming unimpeded into Europe from who knows where. It tells us that the EU has most definitely failed us by leaving our borders open to all-comers. No matter how much hand-wringing posters (sorry for the pun) on here choose to castigate it, ‘that’ poster sent a message and no one can deny it was not the right message. We must break free of the EU to take back control of our borders. The point was made.

‘That’ poster will be talked about forever. It did the job.

Some on here are still wrapped up in immigration. Once and for all, the referendum was NOT about immigration but the problems caused by our inability within the EU to control our country.

EMR Jul 8th 2016 2:10 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11997341)
I see the Holy Grail of racism, ‘that’ poster, is doing the rounds again. I said this a few days ago but I will repeat it for those who didn’t see it or chose to ignore it. ‘That’ poster was a brilliant piece of campaigning. The strategy behind it was to make a point that we have to take back control of our borders. Read ‘that’ poster. Nowhere does it mention immigration. It shows fit young men streaming unimpeded into Europe from who knows where. It tells us that the EU has most definitely failed us by leaving our borders open to all-comers. No matter how much hand-wringing posters (sorry for the pun) on here choose to castigate it, ‘that’ poster sent a message and no one can deny it was not the right message. We must break free of the EU to take back control of our borders. The point was made.

‘That’ poster will be talked about forever. It did the job.

Some on here are still wrapped up in immigration. Once and for all, the referendum was NOT about immigration but the problems caused by our inability within the EU to control our country.

As I posted earlier you may be proud , I use that word not as a compliment of the racist Farage campaign and its posters.
Given the rise is racial attacks and hate crimes, the latest in todays news against a Polish family you have a lot to be proud of.

SultanOfSwing Jul 8th 2016 2:12 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Few problems with the poster, as stated elsewhere.

It shows refugees. The vote was to leave the EU, not the Geneva Convention.

Secondly - free movement will still exist after the dust settles and the UK joins the EEA.

So, you think not having control was a problem, but the end result will be the same rules, but less control.

Well played, Flange, you ****ing mentally defective arsebutton.

amideislas Jul 8th 2016 2:17 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11997341)
I see the Holy Grail of racism, ‘that’ poster, is doing the rounds again. I said this a few days ago but I will repeat it for those who didn’t see it or chose to ignore it. ‘That’ poster was a brilliant piece of campaigning. The strategy behind it was to make a point that we have to take back control of our borders. Read ‘that’ poster. Nowhere does it mention immigration. It shows fit young men streaming unimpeded into Europe from who knows where. It tells us that the EU has most definitely failed us by leaving our borders open to all-comers. No matter how much hand-wringing posters (sorry for the pun) on here choose to castigate it, ‘that’ poster sent a message and no one can deny it was not the right message. We must break free of the EU to take back control of our borders. The point was made.

‘That’ poster will be talked about forever. It did the job.

Some on here are still wrapped up in immigration. Once and for all, the referendum was NOT about immigration but the problems caused by our inability within the EU to control our country.

It certainly is a brilliant piece of campaigning. Well, pretty good anyway.

Freud proved that humans have many hidden fears, locked deep within our subconscious. And for generations, we've learned how to most effectively unlock those fears to associate the fear (or relief from it) with the product we need to sell. In fact, these core subliminal techniques are used every day, in marketing anything from Fairy liquid to Brexit.

This particular campaign very effectively leveraged the public's subliminal fear of those different than us (who are invariably, "foreigners"), sometimes referred to as "racism". It was indeed a brilliant piece, although I would have stuck with more subtle, less obvious means of associating a subliminal fear of something that tangibly doesn't exist, in order to justify buying an antidote product that's so unlikely to sell on its tangible merits alone.

But perhaps that's why leave was so blatant about its less-than-subliminal diversion, so openly promoting fear of nonexistent threats, and promoting the product as an antidote to that fear, simply because of the pathetically weak tangible product merits.

However, had it been Proctor and Gamble behind that campaign, no doubt there would be an investigation by the OFT, and likely, charges and significant fines.

But I'll give it a 7, just because it turned out to more effective than I would have presumed (perhaps I overestimated the intelligence of the electorate)... Yet, there was the added benefit of the tabloid press delivering daily front-page promotion without charge (that we know of), and that would normally be prohibitively expensive.

DaveLovesDee Jul 8th 2016 2:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
That poster is about 'taking back control of our borders', is it?

From whom? It appears to mean ending the free movement of EU nationals.

But this has nothing to do with immigration apparently. :P

Lion in Winter Jul 8th 2016 2:38 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11997341)
I see the Holy Grail of racism, ‘that’ poster, is doing the rounds again. I said this a few days ago but I will repeat it for those who didn’t see it or chose to ignore it. ‘That’ poster was a brilliant piece of campaigning. The strategy behind it was to make a point that we have to take back control of our borders. Read ‘that’ poster. Nowhere does it mention immigration. It shows fit young men streaming unimpeded into Europe from who knows where. It tells us that the EU has most definitely failed us by leaving our borders open to all-comers. No matter how much hand-wringing posters (sorry for the pun) on here choose to castigate it, ‘that’ poster sent a message and no one can deny it was not the right message. We must break free of the EU to take back control of our borders. The point was made.

‘That’ poster will be talked about forever. It did the job.

Some on here are still wrapped up in immigration. Once and for all, the referendum was NOT about immigration but the problems caused by our inability within the EU to control our country.


That poster was a piece of racist, manipulative and dishonest shit.

End of.

The saddest part is that it worked. Not our finest hour.

la mancha Jul 8th 2016 5:20 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
SoS

Who says the UK will join the EEA? We are in uncharted territory. The people have spoken. Woe betide any party that goes against the democratic vote of this country. Re ‘that’ poster again, no one really knows who those young men are, and I would go so far as to say no one really knows where a percentage of them are this minute.

AMI

All of this psycho stuff is irrelevant. You talk as if the people were talked into voting out. How wrong can you be? You use phrases such as:

promoting fear of nonexistent threats,
(perhaps I overestimated the intelligence of the electorate).
the public's subliminal fear of those different than us (who are invariably, "foreigners"), sometimes referred to as "racism".

How many more times must I say this: it was the vote of people who live the life. No one tells them, because they don’t have to: they live it day in day out.

To the rest of the hand-wringers

You still do not understand. The people voted because they have had enough. It was a vote against the establishment telling the lower end what to do but not listening to what those on the lower end were saying. Cameron gave them a chance to voice their disapproval with how their lives have been led by the establishment who were telling them for years how wonderful everything was when they all knew full well life was crap for the lower end of society. One chance and they took it.

That’s right, SoS, they won and nothing else matters to them because they had nothing to lose in the first place. Nothing self-righteous about it, they were f***** as they were and there was nothing on the horizon that would change their lives for the better. Then Cameron came along and he messed up big-time, for the establishment, if I can call it that. He called a referendum without offering anything new to these people. Then the rich and the powerful and the celebs got stuck in, and suddenly people sat up and took notice. I seriously think that if it was left to the government to campaign with no outside influence they might have scraped over the line, but Cameron never did have any common sense. It was doomed to be a close call with the vote to remain but in the event it went the other way, solely, I think, because the celebs and the rich got involved. It was seen as an insult to those whose lives have been forgotten on the back of the EU.

The low paid and the forgotten left their homes in their millions across vast swathes of the Midlands and the North and voted for change. It was unprecedented. No one saw it coming but the people who lived the life. I said on many occasions long before the vote that I had spoken to many people and I had not come across one who wanted to stay in the EU. From postmen to taxi drivers to newsagents to ordinary low paid workers, they all said the same: I’m voting to leave. And this is what they did. No one brainwashed them. They live the life and they knew for themselves what was what. Do you remember that photo of Cameron before he was PM, back in 2007 (?), walking through a housing estate and a hoody standing behind and swearing and holding up his hand as an imaginary gun pointing at him? Those were the people he offered the chance to stick two fingers up at the establishment, and they took it. They saw a future as a 15 or 20 hour week on the minimum wage, if they were lucky and were not fobbed off with zero-hour contract, courtesy of the Job Centre works programme. They saw low wages and high rents and an overcrowded medical service and overcrowded schools and no one was listening to their complaints.

People did not need any lessons or coercion from Leave politicians or Farage or the media: rather it was the opposite. The Leave campaigners heard people’s grievances and used it for their campaign. It was the people who told how it was, not the media. People’s problems existed long before a referendum and the Leave camp existed. SoS, understand that nothing mattered to these people except the need for change in their lives. They voted for that change. They are patient people but if they don’t get it politicians will only have themselves to blame for whoever is in power next.

And I still maintain ‘that’ poster was a masterstroke. How can one say it was racist when immigration wasn’t even mentioned? The point being made was uncontrolled borders. The photo was real. Would you rather these pictures were hidden away to justify your hand-wringing comments? If you don’t face up to a situation it can overwhelm and eventually destroy you.

DaveLovesDee Jul 8th 2016 5:49 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11997541)
To the rest of the hand-wringers

You still do not understand. The people voted because they have had enough. It was a vote against the establishment telling the lower end what to do but not listening to what those on the lower end were saying. Cameron gave them a chance to voice their disapproval with how their lives have been led by the establishment who were telling them for years how wonderful everything was when they all knew full well life was crap for the lower end of society. One chance and they took it.

Bullshit.

The EU was being to blame for everything that was shit about our lives in the UK.

Well the EU didn't destroy the mining industry, nor create the conditions for the destruction of the steel industry (both previously major soiurces of employment in my part of the UK).

The EU did however create EU-wide rules on limiting how many hours employees could be made to work (and allowed those who wanted to work more hours to do so if the employee chooses to do so)

The EU did create rules to require employers to treate temporary workers the same as regular employees after 12 weeks of employment.

The EU does provide funding for poorer regions of the UK to offset the decline caused by both parties who've run the country in the last 40+ years.

We may have voted to Leave the EU, but we haven't gone yet. But we've already started to give more power to the barstards who have been the real cause of our misery, and it definitely isn't the EU I'm referring to.

GeniB Jul 8th 2016 6:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11997341)
I see the Holy Grail of racism, ‘that’ poster, is doing the rounds again. I said this a few days ago but I will repeat it for those who didn’t see it or chose to ignore it. ‘That’ poster was a brilliant piece of campaigning. The strategy behind it was to make a point that we have to take back control of our borders. Read ‘that’ poster. Nowhere does it mention immigration. It shows fit young men streaming unimpeded into Europe from who knows where. It tells us that the EU has most definitely failed us by leaving our borders open to all-comers. No matter how much hand-wringing posters (sorry for the pun) on here choose to castigate it, ‘that’ poster sent a message and no one can deny it was not the right message. We must break free of the EU to take back control of our borders. The point was made.

‘That’ poster will be talked about forever. It did the job.

Some on here are still wrapped up in immigration. Once and for all, the referendum was NOT about immigration but the problems caused by our inability within the EU to control our country.

La Msnche You would probable score very badly on a crime scene test where you had to identify what exactly was going on in the picture :o

The poster does NOT show streams of 'fit young men flooding into the UK'

It does NOT even show young men flooding into Europe.

What it does show.. Is a long line of desperate people crossing a barren landscape. somewhere

It also shows a grinning buffoon, pretending to care ,superimposed on top of those desperate people .

Face it. YOU BOUGHT IT.. Fell hook line and sinker for one of the oldest tricks in the book. Farage cynically manipulated the stereotype he knew people 'feared'
Chose a suitable photo from 'somewhere'? around the globe,photoshopped it and presented it as a fact.
Yes it was brilliant if your were in advertising. If you wanted someone to 'buy' your product. I agree ,People did buy it. The fact that it was a filthy lie shouldn't let people lose any sleep over it now should it.:confused:

GeniB Jul 8th 2016 6:16 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11997541)
SoS

Who says the UK will join the EEA? We are in uncharted territory. The people have spoken. Woe betide any party that goes against the democratic vote of this country. Re ‘that’ poster again, no one really knows who those young men are, and I would go so far as to say no one really knows where a percentage of them are this minute.

AMI

All of this psycho stuff is irrelevant. You talk as if the people were talked into voting out. How wrong can you be? You use phrases such as:

promoting fear of nonexistent threats,
(perhaps I overestimated the intelligence of the electorate).
the public's subliminal fear of those different than us (who are invariably, "foreigners"), sometimes referred to as "racism".

How many more times must I say this: it was the vote of people who live the life. No one tells them, because they don’t have to: they live it day in day out.

To the rest of the hand-wringers

You still do not understand. The people voted because they have had enough. It was a vote against the establishment telling the lower end what to do but not listening to what those on the lower end were saying. Cameron gave them a chance to voice their disapproval with how their lives have been led by the establishment who were telling them for years how wonderful everything was when they all knew full well life was crap for the lower end of society. One chance and they took it.

That’s right, SoS, they won and nothing else matters to them because they had nothing to lose in the first place. Nothing self-righteous about it, they were f***** as they were and there was nothing on the horizon that would change their lives for the better. Then Cameron came along and he messed up big-time, for the establishment, if I can call it that. He called a referendum without offering anything new to these people. Then the rich and the powerful and the celebs got stuck in, and suddenly people sat up and took notice. I seriously think that if it was left to the government to campaign with no outside influence they might have scraped over the line, but Cameron never did have any common sense. It was doomed to be a close call with the vote to remain but in the event it went the other way, solely, I think, because the celebs and the rich got involved. It was seen as an insult to those whose lives have been forgotten on the back of the EU.

The low paid and the forgotten left their homes in their millions across vast swathes of the Midlands and the North and voted for change. It was unprecedented. No one saw it coming but the people who lived the life. I said on many occasions long before the vote that I had spoken to many people and I had not come across one who wanted to stay in the EU. From postmen to taxi drivers to newsagents to ordinary low paid workers, they all said the same: I’m voting to leave. And this is what they did. No one brainwashed them. They live the life and they knew for themselves what was what. Do you remember that photo of Cameron before he was PM, back in 2007 (?), walking through a housing estate and a hoody standing behind and swearing and holding up his hand as an imaginary gun pointing at him? Those were the people he offered the chance to stick two fingers up at the establishment, and they took it. They saw a future as a 15 or 20 hour week on the minimum wage, if they were lucky and were not fobbed off with zero-hour contract, courtesy of the Job Centre works programme. They saw low wages and high rents and an overcrowded medical service and overcrowded schools and no one was listening to their complaints.

People did not need any lessons or coercion from Leave politicians or Farage or the media: rather it was the opposite. The Leave campaigners heard people’s grievances and used it for their campaign. It was the people who told how it was, not the media. People’s problems existed long before a referendum and the Leave camp existed. SoS, understand that nothing mattered to these people except the need for change in their lives. They voted for that change. They are patient people but if they don’t get it politicians will only have themselves to blame for whoever is in power next.

And I still maintain ‘that’ poster was a masterstroke. How can one say it was racist when immigration wasn’t even mentioned? The point being made was uncontrolled borders. The photo was real. Would you rather these pictures were hidden away to justify your hand-wringing comments? If you don’t face up to a situation it can overwhelm and eventually destroy you.


Oh God La Manche (and I don't even believe in 'it') I could cry for you. I can see from this passionate piece that you truly believe you have freed your people from the shackles of the elite..It must kill you therefore to see that it looks like the 'even more elite' are about to take control of the UK.. without any of those nasty controls imposed by the evil EU.. Controls like. working hrs,working conditions,safety,wages, I could go on,but I know your not listening .Your preparing to follow Queen Andrea into the new Utopia with her glorious vision, shared by that other humanitarian (as they chose the exact same wording) Donald Drumpf


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