British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Lion in Winter Apr 19th 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12484993)
Can you tell me where these 70 new jobs are located?

I'm afraid I don't work for them. You could try giving them a call if you're interested.

From the Beeb:

"The Passport Office said the contract would extend Gemalto's presence in the UK and add about 70 jobs to its existing workforce in the country."

UK confirms post-Brexit passport deal with Gemalto - BBC News

Red Eric Apr 19th 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12484991)
Perhaps when the deal is next up for renewal, we could find even more substantial savings from companies in, for example India, Brazil or Thailand; without the EU telling us that we can't do business with whoever we want.

Are you sure the EU tells the UK government it can't do that? I was under the impression that tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of jobs in such things as call centres and IT had been outsourced to India over the years.

Lion in Winter Apr 19th 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12484991)
Perhaps when the deal is next up for renewal, we could find even more substantial savings from companies in, for example India, Brazil or Thailand; without the EU telling us that we can't do business with whoever we want.

China, probably, and nothing to do with the EU whatsoever.

materialcontroller Apr 19th 2018 2:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12484996)
As have any number of other people caught up in May's ill-advised "hostile environment" policy and its application.

I do hope the Mail starts a campaign for all of them too, soon and that you see your way to signing it :thumbup:

The one question I have about this Windrush saga is why didn't most of these people hold on to what documentation they had or seek to formalise their British citizenship in some way over the past decades? Most of them just seem to be saying "well I thought I was here legally."

It's the same careless attitude exhibited by many of the Brits who moved to other parts of the EU and yet didn't bother to safeguard their futures by acquiring citizenship in their new countries of residence, instead of being made to look foolish as a result of the UK leaving.

Cape Blue Apr 19th 2018 2:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12484940)
Could the UK have had a suppressed currency if we'd joined the Euro?

It's a shame the pound was overvalued, holding back the UK.

Possibly, although the lack of control over our own monetary policy might have been more of a problem.

It's positive that you now agree that Sterling was overvalued and the post-referendum softening was welcome.

Lion in Winter Apr 19th 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12485003)
The one question I have about this Windrush saga is why didn't most of these people hold on to what documentation they had or seek to formalise their British citizenship in some way over the past decades? Most of them just seem to be saying "well I thought I was here legally."

It's the same careless attitude exhibited by many of the Brits who moved to other parts of the EU and yet didn't bother to safeguard their futures by acquiring citizenship in their new countries of residence, instead of being made to look foolish as a result of the UK leaving.

Arriving as children may have had something to do with it. And if you live and work successfully somewhere for decades and nobody ever asks for or refers to any documents whatsoever, I expect one doesn't think about it very much.

Red Eric Apr 19th 2018 2:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12484835)
All down to the remain brigade that do not have to balls to no.

Well there you go.

And I thought it was all down to David Davis' (definitely not in the remain brigade) finely honed negotiating skills being brought to bear on the magnaminity of Michel Barnier (also definitely not in the remain brigade), resulting in the optimum outcome of the UK not having to face an overnight shredding of its trading and other relationships with the rest of the world, whach as even Davis knew, would be devastating. So he signed up for no change, which was infinitely preferable before instantly saying that he hadn't signed up for anything and it was only a statement of intent ha ha ha ha ha. That's when the EU got all serious and wrote in a load of much tighter wording in order to more clearly define the intent and to hold the UK to it.

materialcontroller Apr 19th 2018 2:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12485007)
Arriving as children may have had something to do with it. And if you live and work successfully somewhere for decades and nobody ever asks for or refers to any documents whatsoever, I expect one doesn't think about it very much.

Maybe they should have been thinking about it. It would be very high on my list of priorities if I was ever living as a foreigner in a different country.

Lion in Winter Apr 19th 2018 2:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12485013)
Maybe they should have been thinking about it. It would be very high on my list of priorities if I was ever living as a foreigner in a different country.

Possibly. But this does not divest the governmental bodies of their responsibilities. It seems they did not think of themselves as "foreigners", but as British.

Red Eric Apr 19th 2018 2:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12485003)
It's the same careless attitude exhibited by many of the Brits who moved to other parts of the EU and yet didn't bother to safeguard their futures by acquiring citizenship in their new countries of residence, instead of being made to look foolish as a result of the UK leaving.

You Brexiters really, really are absolutely clueless sometimes about the issues surrounding freedom of movement and citizenship, aren't you?

The whole idea is that nobody need have the citizenship of any other member state and in some cases acquiring it actually becomes a positive disadvantage (viz, eg some of the cases which ended up in the ECJ as a result of treatment of EU citizens in the UK who had taken out British citizenship).

Nobody - nobody - has been remiss or complacent in not acquiring citizenship in another state, nor have they been made to look foolish as a result of the UK leaving, nor have they failed to safeguard their future :rolleyes: Some of us may never do so because we now have all sorts of issues to weigh up which we can't make decisions on until the outcome of the negotiations is fully revealed in all it glory.

But the whole premise of FoM is that it's totally unnecessary and that's just as it should be. If someone works in half a dozen different member states over the course of a career, do you really think they should apply to each of those countries for citizenship? And what about if they're in one of the member states which doesn't recognise dual nationality?

It's perfectly possible to live in a country - even outside the EU -as a legal resident with a right to reside and to come and go as one pleases and no obligation whatsoever to ever take out that country's citizenship. AND to feel entirely secure in the knowledge that no government of such a country would ever consider removing you.

materialcontroller Apr 19th 2018 2:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12485025)
You Brexiters really, really are absolutely clueless sometimes about the issues surrounding freedom of movement and citizenship, aren't you?

The whole idea is that nobody need have the citizenship of any other member state and in some cases acquiring it actually becomes a positive disadvantage (viz, eg some of the cases which ended up in the ECJ as a result of treatment of EU citizens in the UK who had taken out British citizenship).

Nobody - nobody - has been remiss or complacent in not acquiring citizenship in another state, nor have they been made to look foolish as a result of the UK leaving, nor have they failed to safeguard their future :rolleyes: Some of us may never do so because we now have all sorts of issues to weigh up which we can't make decisions on until the outcome of the negotiations is fully revealed in all it glory.

But the whole premise of FoM is that it's totally unnecessary and that's just as it should be. If someone works in half a dozen different member states over the course of a career, do you really think they should apply to each of those countries for citizenship? And what about if they're in one of the member states which doesn't recognise dual nationality?

It's perfectly possible to live in a country - even outside the EU -as a legal resident with a right to reside and to come and go as one pleases and no obligation whatsoever to ever take out that country's citizenship. AND to feel entirely secure in the knowledge that no government of such a country would ever consider removing you.

"EU citizenship" is a myth, Eric. Nationality provides rights, "EU citizenship" is simply a set of privileges (not rights) accorded by multinational treaties. One can be removed much more easily than the other.

Your last paragraph is patent nonsense when every government in the world has the power to deport foreign citizens from their territory. Plenty of people on the US section of this forum have taken US citizenship expressly to safeguard their future presence and status within the USA.

SultanOfSwing Apr 19th 2018 3:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12484613)
The Germans aren't leaving.

We should have a penalty shootout for Brexit. That should pretty much guarantee the UK will stay in ...

materialcontroller Apr 19th 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12485016)
Possibly. But this does not divest the governmental bodies of their responsibilities. It seems they did not think of themselves as "foreigners", but as British.

Well, I don't just think of myself as British. I am British. I've still retained things such as two birth certificates (long and short form), national health card and every passport I've ever had - just in case I ever need this stuff again at some future point.

la mancha Apr 19th 2018 4:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12484996)
As have any number of other people caught up in May's ill-advised "hostile environment" policy and its application.

I do hope the Mail starts a campaign for all of them too, soon and that you see your way to signing it :thumbup:

May now has to sort out the mess over the decision to destroy the landing cards taken under the then Labour government in 2009.

la mancha Apr 19th 2018 4:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12484997)
I'm afraid I don't work for them. You could try giving them a call if you're interested.

From the Beeb:

"The Passport Office said the contract would extend Gemalto's presence in the UK and add about 70 jobs to its existing workforce in the country."

UK confirms post-Brexit passport deal with Gemalto - BBC News

Ah, so 70 jobs haven’t been created. They should be created.


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