British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Cape Blue Apr 1st 2018 5:48 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12474002)

I really hope you didn't fall for that and are just trolling.

macliam Apr 1st 2018 6:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12474042)
I really hope you didn't fall for that are are just trolling.

Trolling? I'll leave that to you - you did notice the date did you? Or is that something else you'd like to change?

Cape Blue Apr 1st 2018 6:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12474047)
Trolling? I'll leave that to you - you did notice the date did you? Or is that something else you'd like to change?

Yes, so just trolling for a reaction from our leave brethren.

DaveLovesDee Apr 1st 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12474016)
My issue is with the petitions organised by the Daily Mail and Unite. Anything else I am not interested in. You are trying to drag me into something and I am not biting. I have not commented on where the passports should be made or by whom. My issue is nothing to do with that. It is the petition and I asked who signed it. That is all. If you wish to answer my posts then make it relevant to the issue I am talking about and not rules of bidding processes, a Dutch company creating 70+ jobs in the UK (when it happens, okay, know what I mean?), and we do not know anything about security concerns because we are not privy to them. My issue is with the signing of the petitions. Full stop. If that covers it then there is no more to be said.

Your original post on the subject was


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12471796)
I have just signed the Daily Mail petition to get the new British passport printed in Britain. If you want to support British jobs here is the link.

Mail petition: Give the contract for the UK's new blue passport to a British firm | Daily Mail Online

Which seems to imply that if we don't support British jobs, we won't sign the petition. But also, the jobs haven't been confirmed as being undedr threat, unlike the other companies who been mentioned that don't have petitions to save their jobs. I haven't seen any posts by you supporting petitions for those workers either.

The passports petition is dog-whistle politics, nothing more. You and others are merely using this as another reason to support leaving the EU. I support British workers keeping their jobs, but as has been said before, 100 workers in Gateshead. may or may not lose their jobs, but 70 others are guaranteed in Fareham. Maybe the people of Fareham should have those jobs taken away, then we can sign a petition for that too!


Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12474041)
Yes, I know all that, you are not saying anything different - some people did not want the desires of Polish people in Poland and German people in Germany to outvote British people in Britain

The sharing of sovereignty means less direct democracy for Brits in the UK.

Really! You're serious..... :rofl:

How does being a member of the EU mean that British nationals have less direct democracy over British politicians? The UK government and Parliament regularly makes decisions on behalf of the the UK population, and at the EU level our Prime Minister and directly-elected MEPs represent British interests.


It isn't media outlets, it's a fact that being a member of the EU means that the country shares sovereignty with the EU - the UK can't strike up a trade deal with Canada tomorrow because it has allowed the EU to take control of that. The UK can't set new environmental standards in the UK because these are set by the EU. Some people are happy with that situation, others weren't.
The EU (including the UK) already has a trade deal with Canada, and the UK can set stricter environmental standards than EU ones, but they can't make those standards laxer than the EU's.

Trade deals. Which would you prefer to deal with? A potential customer base of 510 million, 440 million, or 70 million?

DaveLovesDee Apr 1st 2018 7:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12474048)
Yes, so just trolling for a reaction from our leave brethren.

I thought he was posting an April Fool's prank from the EU. You should see the replies on the original Twitter post.

amideislas Apr 1st 2018 7:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Why are you all still twisted up on the passport thing? It's completely irrelevant and meaningless.

morpeth Apr 1st 2018 7:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12473929)
I will answer your post for everyone because I haven’t the time to do so individually.

Morpeth. You could use your argument against all government spending, i.e. the foreign aid budget. You see, you also miss the point. The petition was a call to safeguard British jobs that could be lost due to the loss of the passport contract. Is Unite wrong to call a petition on this?

LIW. You Remainers are well known for piss-taking and I do not complain about it. I find it amusing coming from you. Piss-taking is all you Remainers have left in your armoury. Ah, a bully now, am I? Never mind, snowflake, find a safe space and you won’t have to read my posts.

Red. Whataboutism again? If you read my post correctly, which I think you did but just have the need to be contradictory and very unfunny, I said the Unite petition is open to any British citizen in the world.

Watchpost. Maybe other nations do not have the secure and technically advanced facilities as we in the UK have to print their own.

And you again drive off on a tangent talking about boycotts, something not connected to what Unite is saying.

You use the phrase ‘whites of their eyes’ to go back to the Empire again, a much travelled term with you Remainers. Why? I have never used it.

You say it isn't within the UK government's power to award the contract to de la Rue: it was subject to public procurement rules, not only the EU's, but also the WTO's.

I thought security issue procurement could be exempt from EU procurement rules. Is it true French passports are printed by Imprimerie Nationale, the state-run French printing organisation, with the French government having made the decision not to put the job out to tender?

This is all I am saying on this subject.

Quite correct the argument against wasteful spending can be applied to any government spending, in particular to support inefficient companies to save jobs. Such spending generally retards economic growth, in particular for companies that may not be at the forefront of technological progress or growing industries.

Novocastrian Apr 1st 2018 8:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12474073)
Why are you all still twisted up on the passport thing? It's completely irrelevant and meaningless.

This. It is a symptom of a thread which has long ago lost the point.

BristolUK Apr 1st 2018 9:45 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12474038)
I've said multiple times I would vote remain again.

Okay. I was just wondering if your detailed and forceful arguments in favour of leaving had persuaded you to desert the remainiacs who are so obviously wrong and sheep like according to the gist of your comments.

I don't think you're making a very convincing case if you can't persuade yourself.

morpeth Apr 1st 2018 11:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12473959)
I have pointed out positives such as reduced migration impacting wages and housing. There are also benefits regarding the trade deals the UK does in the future being better for the UK than they were under the EU.

It's not an option many young people were using, but the majority of your people live under a roof and pay increased rents and prices due to the immigration-driven population-surge.

Yes, there could easily be a negative impact - for the few people involved.

600 agreements/treaties is the usual project fear - are we that worried if the EU treaty with the Congo over wood is not copied immediately? How about the external relations treaty with Laos? Or the Ivory coast rubber treaty?

The vast majority are peanuts and we will focus on the big ones with our big partners.

It's called democracy, the fact that some people don't like losing and petulantly want a do-over does not trump the fact that we already had the largest vote the country ever had and you (we) lost. Tough luck, this childish screaming for a do-over is sickening to watch. Have some pie https://www.facebook.com/bbcthree/vi...5637772295787/

Certainly governments over the past 20+ years have failed to address the issue and the elites are currently lobbying for the import of low-cost compliant labour, so we will see. I think May at least understands that she can't continue to permit FOM which is why we must leave the SM.

This is the bit where remainers are still arguing the referendum - it doesn't matter a jot whether there is anything beneficial about brexit, the vote was had and remain lost. Some people after a Corbyn Labour election win would argue that there is nothing beneficial about socialists getting in to government - tough luck, they lost.

Other people prioritise things differently than you do - some felt that the Commission proposing legislation and ECJ ruling on it was unacceptable to them as they were not elected and even the EU Parliament meant the UK gave up a lot of democracy to the whims of 450M other people who have differing attitudes than many in the UK.

Others objected to the arm twisting for a net £9B a year, not to run the operation of the EU, but as a bung to other countries to enable them to become move competitive - sometimes competing against the UK whose was supplying the funds.

I've no doubt that there are a range of other drivers for brexit voters, some more considered and nuanced than others - just the same as for remain voters.

Is there any objective reason to believe that the UK will get better terms after negotiating new trade deals than the larger EU trading block can get ? Or that the possibility of good trade deals ( which seems wishful thinking) will definitely make up for potential trade losses ?

Why are Brexiters so afraid of another referendum ?

Assanah Apr 2nd 2018 5:36 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12474134)
Why are Brexiters so afraid of another referendum ?

The EU has moved on. There are much more pressing topics for the EU, eg finalizing a trade deal with Japan, a much bigger economy than the UK. I don't think that there will be a majority within the EU member states at tge moment that will allow article 50 to be reversed.

Red Eric Apr 2nd 2018 7:37 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12474113)
Okay. I was just wondering if your detailed and forceful arguments in favour of leaving had persuaded you to desert the remainiacs who are so obviously wrong and sheep like according to the gist of your comments.

I don't think you're making a very convincing case if you can't persuade yourself.

:lol:

amideislas Apr 2nd 2018 8:09 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Meanwhile...

This is pretty scathing. And frankly, not particularly untrue or misleading...

Of course the ultras are afraid: their Brexit now looks toxic

...why are the triumphant Brexiters so furious, suspicious and vengeful? They won their four-decade dream of “freedom” and “control”. Why are they so bloody miserable? Instead of hope, the victors see saboteurs and conspiracies everywhere.

amideislas Apr 2nd 2018 8:15 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12474218)
The EU has moved on. There are much more pressing topics for the EU, eg finalizing a trade deal with Japan, a much bigger economy than the UK. I don't think that there will be a majority within the EU member states at tge moment that will allow article 50 to be reversed.

Well, Japan seems to think so (along with their seemingly discarded industrial giants operating in the UK).

Japan says trade deal with EU is a greater priority than deal with UK

jimenato Apr 2nd 2018 8:41 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
I'm wondering how out three Brexiteers (Cape, Manch and Fred) think about each other - there certainly seems to be some differences in their thinking.

Cape thinks that the fate of Gibraltarians and Northern Irish is mere collateral damage compared to the vastly superior numbers of the rest of us.

I wonder what Fred thinks about that - the fate of Gibraltar subordinate to the needs of the UK.

Then there's Manch who seems really concerned about a relatively few jobs (well none really) and has been banging on about some silly petition to save these jobs.

I wonder how that balances with Cape's somewhat cavalier attitude to nearly two million people.

I suspect that these anomalies are rife in the wider Leaver psyche.


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