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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Annetje Dec 15th 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12400396)
Morpeth You keep repeating this point about "skilled workers" --if it is so hard how does the UK manage to attract skilled workers from outside the EU, in some professions the majority are from outside the EU.
You mention the 'leave' amount --not fixed yet; have you forgotten the membership fee?

I do wish that every now and then you would come off your high horse !
Morphet used the word ''harder'' not ''hard'' ... simples ...Do not start up that discussion again !

Bipat Dec 15th 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12400398)
I do wish that every now and then you would come off your high horse !
Morphet used the word ''harder'' not ''hard'' ... simples ...Do not start up that discussion again !

Well, apologies---I should have used the word "harder" instead of "hard"--
Morphet??
Tell me why will it be 'harder' to bring in skilled workers.
Why should I not ask this question---or maybe your "high horse"?

Garbatellamike Dec 15th 2017 6:41 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12400403)
Well, apologies---I should have used the word "harder" instead of "hard"--
Morphet??
Tell me why will it be 'harder' to bring in skilled workers.
Why should I not ask this question---or maybe your "high horse"?

I think Morpeth was what was meant but maybe Anne has been borrowing Genie's predictive text algorithm :sneaky:

Annetje Dec 15th 2017 6:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12400403)
Well, apologies---I should have used the word "harder" instead of "hard"--
Morphet??
Tell me why will it be 'harder' to bring in skilled workers.
Why should I not ask this question---or maybe your "high horse"?

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Annetje Dec 15th 2017 6:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12400405)
I think Morpeth was what was meant but maybe Anne has been borrowing Genie's predictive text algorithm :sneaky:

:goodpost:

morpeth Dec 15th 2017 6:54 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12400383)
but if we have a legally binding vote in Parliament as per the recent amendment, why would we need another referendum?

Democracy. The issue has raised lots of emotions and I think for all those who voted to leave their intentions as to why to leave should be considered- my hunch is when faced with reality 10 to 20% who voted leave would vote differently. This is serious stuff for Britain's future, and I don't have a lot of confidence in either of the two major parties to decide this issue well.

amideislas Dec 15th 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12400414)
Democracy. The issue has raised lots of emotions and I think for all those who voted to leave their intentions as to why to leave should be considered- my hunch is when faced with reality 10 to 20% who voted leave would vote differently. This is serious stuff for Britain's future, and I don't have a lot of confidence in either of the two major parties to decide this issue well.

The political parties are too wrapped around ideology axles. Can't see the forest for the trees. But then, so is the electorate (their bosses) fuelled by a press that's also wrapped around an ideological axe.

Prognosis doesn't appear to include what's good for the country.

morpeth Dec 15th 2017 7:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12400403)
Well, apologies---I should have used the word "harder" instead of "hard"--
Morphet??
Tell me why will it be 'harder' to bring in skilled workers.
Why should I not ask this question---or maybe your "high horse"?

I have answered this twice in asking a question which you havent answered. It is so simple I am not sure how to explain again. Right now as a UK employer I can interview someone form Europe quickly ( they don't need a visa) , are close and probably familiar with EU rules they have and would have to deal with, and if I wish to hire them I can do so virtually immediately.

With a non-EU worker (a) they are farther away but you are right they can catch a plane though someone has to pay for (b) if I wish to hire them will take longer and more paperwork for work visa etc. (c) they may need additional training on EU regulations and practices.

This doesn't mean at all anything for or against workers from your country.Just a practical consideration.

- My question was simple : why leave the current arrangement with the EU that will make it more cumbersome to hire skilled workers ?

-Second, if it is so simple for non-EU skilled workers to enter, and Brexit as envisaged will keep it easy for EU skilled workers to enter, then is the freedom of movement issue only about workers that are unskilled or for some reason considered unneeded ?

If my comments appear "high horse" they are not meant that way. I am just a simple person imagining myself as an employer,, and remembering when I had to deal with visa questions for potential hires from abroad- I never would have thought hiring someone without a work visa would be the same as going through getting a work visa. Maybe the process is instantaneous for non-EU migrants but something tells me it isn't.

Bipat Dec 15th 2017 7:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12400418)
I have answered this twice in asking a question which you havent answered. It is so simple I am not sure how to explain again. Right now as a UK employer I can interview someone form Europe quickly ( they don't need a visa) , are close and probably familiar with EU rules they have and would have to deal with, and if I wish to hire them I can do so virtually immediately.

With a non-EU worker (a) they are farther away but you are right they can catch a plane though someone has to pay for (b) if I wish to hire them will take longer and more paperwork for work visa etc. (c) they may need additional training on EU regulations and practices.

This doesn't mean at all anything for or against workers from your country.Just a practical consideration.

- My question was simple : why leave the current arrangement with the EU that will make it more cumbersome to hire skilled workers ?

-Second, if it is so simple for non-EU skilled workers to enter, and Brexit as envisaged will keep it easy for EU skilled workers to enter, then is the freedom of movement issue only about workers that are unskilled or for some reason considered unneeded ?

If my comments appear "high horse" they are not meant that way. I am just a simple person imagining myself as an employer,, and remembering when I had to deal with visa questions for potential hires from abroad- I never would have thought hiring someone without a work visa would be the same as going through getting a work visa. Maybe the process is instantaneous for non-EU migrants but something tells me it isn't.

I was answering Annetje's post, she was accusing me regarding "high horse":lol:

I think our personal definition of skilled worker is probably different. I am thinking of the professions and teachers, academics, researchers etc. who will likely stay for some time, not those workers who are 'hired' for short term employment.
I can see your point regarding immediate employment of workers for short term work--or seasonal work. Separate arrangements 'could' be arranged.

Cape Blue Dec 15th 2017 7:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12400377)
No - they absolutely did not.

We have been reminded on numerous occasions by Brexiteers that there was only one question on the paper - Leave or Remain.

The vote was to leave - nothing more whatsoever.

The people who voted Leave for whatever many and various reasons they had for doing that, have no say whatsoever in the manner of our leaving because we can only guess at their many and varied reasons.

LINO as you call it is leaving - which was what was voted for. If that's what happens, then the Leave vote will have been fulfilled completely.

Many remainers are calling for a referendum on the outcome of the negotiations. Perhaps Leavers should join in this call so that they can have a say in what kind of Brexit they want - at the moment they have none.

I'll reply to yours, but several others have made the same point.

It's amusing that remainiacs have spent the past 18 months abusing brexiters as xenophobic and dreaming of empire and yet now want to say the vote was not about immigration and ECJ/Laws? Really? You can't have it both ways.

The Lord Ashcroft post-referendum analysis is used daily by remainiacs to lambaste brexit voters as bigotted and thick, yet you will now deny the principle reasons for brexiters vote to leave?

Laws/ECJ and immigration were the two primary reason quoted by brexiters from all political parties in the Ashcroft work, "leaving" the EU but staying with the ECJ and FOM would clearly be LINO and not reflect the will of the majority of the voting electorate.

Cape Blue Dec 15th 2017 7:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12400368)
Probably take another referendum to sort it out, though I don't think withdrawing A50 will be one of the options.

There is rapidly growing mass uncontrolled public support for a 2nd referendum - on the terms of the withdrawal - though. Now in the majority vs no more referendums, by quite some yawning margin, according to a huge body of incredibly accurate expert scientific opinion surveying.

Did you watch Question Time last night?

Annetje Dec 15th 2017 7:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12400429)
I'll reply to yours, but several others have made the same point.

It's amusing that remainiacs have spent the past 18 months abusing brexiters as xenophobic and dreaming of empire and yet now want to say the vote was not about immigration and ECJ/Laws? Really? You can't have it both ways.

The Lord Ashcroft post-referendum analysis is used daily by remainiacs to lambaste brexit voters as bigotted and thick, yet you will now deny the principle reasons for brexiters vote to leave?

Laws/ECJ and immigration were the two primary reason quoted by brexiters from all political parties in the Ashcroft work, "leaving" the EU but staying with the ECJ and FOM would clearly be LINO and not reflect the will of the majority of the voting electorate.

You forgot ''the Bojo Bus'' :nod:

Cape Blue Dec 15th 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12400375)
I think one of the greatest possible dangers to Brexit is when all is said and done the majority of those who voted for Brexit will come to the conclusion than what they thought they were voting didn't come to pass- and that will create quite a few voters who are angry and lose all faith in the political system.

Please can someone tell me what as of now is the economic benefit to Britain of having any level of reduced access or benefits to the EU market ? Or making it harder to bring in skilled workers ? Of having to pay 50 billion or whatever the amount is to leave ? I admit I must really be missing something, as I am trying to figure out how this whole mess will benefit the UK. Or what dastardly action of the ECJ justifies slowing down UK economic growth or even causing somewhat of a decline ?

Those are all clearly negatives of brexit, but on the other hand we have a reduction in mass migration (with negative impacts on housing, wages and productivity, especially the low payed, low skilled), a reduction in our circa £10B net payment a year, the ability to strike appropriate trade deals with the rest of the world, more direct democracy, etc.

My personal circumstances led me to believe that the positives of the EU outweighed the negatives, but that does not mean there were no negatives nor that other peoples circumstances would not have produced an entirely logical opposite opinion.

Giantaxe Dec 15th 2017 8:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12400429)
Laws/ECJ and immigration were the two primary reason quoted by brexiters from all political parties in the Ashcroft work, "leaving" the EU but staying with the ECJ and FOM would clearly be LINO and not reflect the will of the majority of the voting electorate.

Funnily enough, democracy works through the result of actual specific votes, not what people may or may not say to exit and other pollers. And, quite simply, what they voted on was:

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

Nothing more, nothing less.

morpeth Dec 15th 2017 9:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12400428)
I was answering Annetje's post, she was accusing me regarding "high horse":lol:

I think our personal definition of skilled worker is probably different. I am thinking of the professions and teachers, academics, researchers etc. who will likely stay for some time, not those workers who are 'hired' for short term employment.
I can see your point regarding immediate employment of workers for short term work--or seasonal work. Separate arrangements 'could' be arranged.

Sorry I missed to whom the high horse comment was made.

In the fast moving IT world or financial services sometimes companies just don't want to wait for a work visa to be approved, or to pay for someone to fly longer distances just for an interview. Same can apply to the seasonal work you refer to. No matter how it is looked at, leaving the EU and changing the existing freedom of movement will be a negative for companies needing skilled workers, perhaps not end of the world but a negative- but I am getting the impression those who voted to leave were not too concerned about the overall effect on the economy or business.

I can see that some lower skilled low wage jobs will see some wage increases and create more opportunities for locals, as one would expect, but I am not sure whether this is enough of a benefit against the negatives Brexit may bring.

By the way out of curiosity what are the serious decisions of ECJ that have been so detrimental to Britain ?


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