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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Dec 13th 2017, 8:43 am
  #25111  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
It is not me who is stupid read your own post startimg this debate.
As the New statesman said this morning regarding the comments coming from Davis and the brexit camp, these people do not realise that those they are negotiating with can understand English.

I am more than happy it is not me who is going on and on about, no agreement until everything is agreed.
We can walk away etc etc
That is the brexit stance.
You do not want any ECJ influence.
You do not want preferential treatment for EU citizens.
You do not want focus on EU trade as opposed to possible, trade deals an an unknown time in the future.

Well get used to it.
Brexit will not be what you thought it will be.
EMR what is the point of discussing an agreement if you refuse to read it????

Do you accept that the agreement and its wording apply TO BOTH SIDES??

You are making up your own mind what Brexiters think out of your dislike of the fact that all do not agree with YOU.

It is not "preferential" treatment for EU citizens already in the Uk---it has always been said that they should continue with their rights.
It is hoped the same will apply to UK citizens in the EU ---what is your problem with that?

I and others think that the UK courts are perfectly capable of overseeing the rights of EU citizens as they will continue to do after the eight years presently agreed is up. (May be the EU will 'adapt' it to longer!!)

Obviously a focus must be on EU trade ----both sides need that!! That doesn't preclude the UK making further trade deals with non-EU countries.

I think YOU need to get used to it Brexit will be successful; however there is a long way to go in the negotiations.

Last edited by Bipat; Dec 13th 2017 at 8:46 am.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 8:56 am
  #25112  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
EMR what is the point of discussing an agreement if you refuse to read it????

Do you accept that the agreement and its wording apply TO BOTH SIDES??

You are making up your own mind what Brexiters think out of your dislike of the fact that all do not agree with YOU.

It is not "preferential" treatment for EU citizens already in the Uk---it has always been said that they should continue with their rights.
It is hoped the same will apply to UK citizens in the EU ---what is your problem with that?

I and others think that the UK courts are perfectly capable of judgeing the rights of EU citizens as they will continue to do after the eight years presently agreed is up. (May be the EU will 'adapt' it to longer!!)

Obviously a focus must be on EU trade ----both sides need that!! That doesn't preclude the UK making further trade deals with non-EU countries.

I think YOU need to get used to it Brexit will be successful; however there is a long way to go in the negotiations.
When you start reading UK newspapers following daily progs
like the Politics Programme, Newsnight etc, then you can come on and tell us brexiters are thinking.
We see it every day, many times a day.
Davis has damaged the negotiations by taking the same stance as yours.
Not good for the UK.

Who has just done a mega trade deal with one of the top 5 economies.
The EU.
A deal that as a non member the UK will be excluded from and have to negotiate on its own account.
Along with the raft of others that you believe will happen

As Theresa May suggested in a speech regarding trade we need the EU more than it need us.

You definetly have the brexit blinkers on.
I do not know how many times that I have posted the UK to be a growing and prosperous economy.
I just do not believe that under brexit that would happen, although with the recognition finally by the government that EU trade is far more important than brexit rhetoric there is a glimmer of light at the end of the brexit tunnel.
The ECJ, immigration, regulations etc can all be kicked down the agenda .
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 8:59 am
  #25113  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
EMR what is the point of discussing an agreement if you refuse to read it????

Do you accept that the agreement and its wording apply TO BOTH SIDES??

You are making up your own mind what Brexiters think out of your dislike of the fact that all do not agree with YOU.

It is not "preferential" treatment for EU citizens already in the Uk---it has always been said that they should continue with their rights.
It is hoped the same will apply to UK citizens in the EU ---what is your problem with that?

I and others think that the UK courts are perfectly capable of overseeing the rights of EU citizens as they will continue to do after the eight years presently agreed is up. (May be the EU will 'adapt' it to longer!!)

Obviously a focus must be on EU trade ----both sides need that!! That doesn't preclude the UK making further trade deals with non-EU countries.

I think YOU need to get used to it Brexit will be successful; however there is a long way to go in the negotiations.
.... and how, exactly, do you keep the Irish border open AND control your borders AND not conform to EU trade requirements AND not treat NI any differently to RoUK?? Of course the EU would like a trade deal, but given that it's 6% of EU exports against >40% of UK exports, it takes two to tango - and one dancer has a broken leg.

Last edited by macliam; Dec 13th 2017 at 9:03 am.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 9:06 am
  #25114  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
It is not "preferential" treatment for EU citizens already in the Uk---it has always been said that they should continue with their rights.
Unfortunately, what was previously said about the preservation of rights has not been matched by the UK government during the negotiations. Their initial offer was a long way short of what has so far been agreed and that, in its turn, is a long way below what has applied to now.

It is very clearly the UK government, not the other EU member states, who want to reduce these rights.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 9:12 am
  #25115  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Unfortunately, what was previously said about the preservation of rights has not been matched by the UK government during the negotiations. Their initial offer was a long way short of what has so far been agreed and that, in its turn, is a long way below what has applied to now.

It is very clearly the UK government, not the other EU member states, who want to reduce these rights.
........ and the ONLY reason for that is as a sop to the xenophobic ramblings of the hard brexiteers.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 9:17 am
  #25116  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

This will upset Bipat.
UK press reports that Davis has accepted after discussions with his EU counterparts that phase 1 as agreed last week will be given legal status.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 9:59 am
  #25117  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
This will upset Bipat.
UK press reports that Davis has accepted after discussions with his EU counterparts that phase 1 as agreed last week will be given legal status.
Why would I be upset?---I have actually read the report apparently unlike yourself.

Could you give a link---so that we all can see what the UK press reports as being discussed!
Explain how a report will be legally binding, "status" means just that, what its legal "status" if any is.

As I repeatedly said above, the report is a JOINT report the wording applies to BOTH sides, why is that difficult for you?

(I have said above, if you could read, that Davis was foolish, in his way of explaining the wording.)
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 10:04 am
  #25118  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Why would I be upset?---I have actually read the report apparently unlike yourself.

Could you give a link---so that we all can see what the UK press reports as being discussed!
Explain how a report will be legally binding, "status" means just that, what its legal "status" if any is.

As I repeatedly said above, the report is a JOINT report the wording applies to BOTH sides, why is that difficult for you?

(I have said above, if you could read, that Davis was foolish, in his way of explaining the wording.)
You reading of the report is out of date.I suggest you read the latest comments in the UK press.
Why do the Irish government and the EU negotiators diverge from the views of Davis our senior negotiator,
Davis has clearly had to back down.
Telegraph, Independant, even the Express, you can just imagine how it views events.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 10:20 am
  #25119  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

It is quite clear that it is the Remoaners who are making a 3-ring circus out of this, starting with Leo Varadkar and subsequently jumped on with delight by Guy Verhofstadt and the whole Remoan press.

The EU signed up to the joint report, they can read and understand what it says and they can present their own interpretations. But to get upset over the b------g obvious just because their arch enemy, David Davis, is inept enough to spell it out to a "confused" Andrew Marr who was simply fishing for some "headlines" is just crude politicking.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 10:29 am
  #25120  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas View Post
It is quite clear that it is the Remoaners who are making a 3-ring circus out of this, starting with Leo Varadkar and subsequently jumped on with delight by Guy Verhofstadt and the whole Remoan press.

The EU signed up to the joint report, they can read and understand what it says and they can present their own interpretations. But to get upset over the b------g obvious just because their arch enemy, David Davis, is inept enough to spell it out to a "confused" Andrew Marr who was simply fishing for some "headlines" is just crude politicking.
All Davis had to say as any experienced negitiator would have done was that the agreement was a positive step forward to trade negotiations, nothing more.
No disagreement, he is inept and has now had to backtrack .
Probably not for the last time.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 10:37 am
  #25121  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
You reading of the report is out of date.I suggest you read the latest comments in the UK press.
Why do the Irish government and the EU negotiators diverge from the views of Davis our senior negotiator,
Davis has clearly had to back down.
Telegraph, Independant, even the Express, you can just imagine how it views events.
How can reading of a report be "out of date"--it is as it is!!!
The press did not write the report!!

I asked you for a link--to what you suggested above --that the legal status of the report was to be further explained!

As the above post indicates--David Davis was foolish in his inept way of discussing it.

However much you dislike the fact* EMR--progress has been made.

*--
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 10:38 am
  #25122  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It is very clearly the UK government, not the other EU member states, who want to reduce these rights.
Interesting how things are being turned around and the EU suddenly appears to be the villain. It is completely right and should be stressed that it is not the EU member states who want to reduce those rights.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 10:42 am
  #25123  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas View Post
It is quite clear that it is the Remoaners who are making a 3-ring circus out of this, starting with Leo Varadkar and subsequently jumped on with delight by Guy Verhofstadt and the whole Remoan press.

The EU signed up to the joint report, they can read and understand what it says and they can present their own interpretations. But to get upset over the b------g obvious just because their arch enemy, David Davis, is inept enough to spell it out to a "confused" Andrew Marr who was simply fishing for some "headlines" is just crude politicking.
Leo Varadkar, Guy Verhofstadt, remoaners???? I think you'll find they ARE remaining, so have no need to "moan".

They CAN read and, apparently, they know the value of an agreement even if David Davies doesn't.

Whilst Davies might seem inept (and it's hard to gainsay that) we should remember that he earned the nickname "charming bastard" in Europe at the time of Maastricht and was called "the master of constructive obstruction" by the Portuguese foreign minister.

So, is he a man with a plan? (unlikely as it might seem)
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 10:45 am
  #25124  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
How can reading of a report be "out of date"--it is as it is!!!
The press did not write the report!!

I asked you for a link--to what you suggested above --that the legal status of the report was to be further explained!

As the above post indicates--David Davis was foolish in his inept way of discussing it.

However much you dislike the fact* EMR--progress has been made.

*--
You really do need to go to Specsavers.
I am pleased that progress is being made unlike the extreme fringe of br3xiters.
You should read the comments regarding the preferential treatment being proposed for EU migrants.
Continuing free movement until we exit.
No restrictions on family reunification.
Post brexit a simple and cheaper restrigation of new entrants.
If that is not preferential then what is.
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Old Dec 13th 2017, 11:03 am
  #25125  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Leo Varadkar, Guy Verhofstadt, remoaners????
They want the UK to remain hence the moniker.

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
They CAN read and, apparently, they know the value of an agreement even if David Davies doesn't.
May be you can't read then; because it is not an agreement, it is a joint report - it says so on the first page!

And para 5 even says "Under the caveat that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, the joint commitment set out below in this joint report shall be reflected in the Withdrawal Agreement in full detail."

How much clearer could it be?
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