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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

macliam Dec 4th 2017 10:09 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12394014)
There was an article in a paper I read today (honestly I forget which one) which opined that the Irish Question has put paid to many a UK PM, as has the EU question. May ( said the article) has managed to mix both these issues into a single toxic glass.

Bye bye Theresa, hallo Jeremy.

I have to say I find it difficult to see a way out of the Irish situation. Both sides (or is that all three, as the DUP are out on their own?) say they want no border, but fine words butter no parsnips......

The mechanics of a "frictionless border" for trade notwithstanding, what about immigration and smuggling - both ways? Today on R4 they spoke to a government rep in Norway regarding the border with Sweden. Not really a close comparison because although one is in and one is out of the EU, they are both in the single market and Schengen. Yet they still have customs posts!! There are many, many, issues..... both for the UK and the EU. Even if (as has been suggested) the UK don't have any border restrictions, that would force the EU to have an open border - and why should they?

However, while Westminster and Dublin might be able to work something out, the DUP with their rabid distrust of Dublin and their insistence that NI is treated "like any other part of the UK" (albeit one where the police are armed, abortion is illegal, gay marriage is not recognized, etc., etc.) will always be the dog in the manger.

Still. let's see - as long as May can stop her party colleagues from making stupid, inflamatory statements suggesting Ireland should also leave the EU, or that it is Ireland's problem, not the UK's.

Annetje Dec 4th 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12394030)
I have to say I find it difficult to see a way out of the Irish situation. Both sides (or is that all three, as the DUP are out on their own?) say they want no border, but fine words butter no parsnips......

The mechanics of a "frictionless border" for trade notwithstanding, what about immigration and smuggling - both ways? Today on R4 they spoke to a government rep in Norway regarding the border with Sweden. Not really a close comparison because although one is in and one is out of the EU, they are both in the single market and Schengen. Yet they still have customs posts!! There are many, many, issues..... both for the UK and the EU. Even if (as has been suggested) the UK don't have any border restrictions, that would force the EU to have an open border - and why should they?

However, while Westminster and Dublin might be able to work something out, the DUP with their rabid distrust of Dublin and their insistence that NI is treated "like any other part of the UK" (albeit one where the police are armed, abortion is illegal, gay marriage is not recognized, etc., etc.) will always be the dog in the manger.

Still. let's see - as long as May can stop her party colleagues from making stupid, inflamatory statements suggesting Ireland should also leave the EU, or that it is Ireland's problem, not the UK's.

Have this feeling tensions are running very high in the UK, if not about the border it's about rights EU citizens. At least, for the moment, the divorce bill is not in the news any more. So sorry for all involved.

And if you think this is difficult, wait until trade talks start ...

DaveLovesDee Dec 4th 2017 10:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12394030)
I have to say I find it difficult to see a way out of the Irish situation. Both sides (or is that all three, as the DUP are out on their own?) say they want no border, but fine words butter no parsnips......

The mechanics of a "frictionless border" for trade notwithstanding, what about immigration and smuggling - both ways? Today on R4 they spoke to a government rep in Norway regarding the border with Sweden. Not really a close comparison because although one is in and one is out of the EU, they are both in the single market and Schengen. Yet they still have customs posts!! There are many, many, issues..... both for the UK and the EU. Even if (as has been suggested) the UK don't have any border restrictions, that would force the EU to have an open border - and why should they?

However, while Westminster and Dublin might be able to work something out, the DUP with their rabid distrust of Dublin and their insistence that NI is treated "like any other part of the UK" (albeit one where the police are armed, abortion is illegal, gay marriage is not recognized, etc., etc.) will always be the dog in the manger.

Still. let's see - as long as May can stop her party colleagues from making stupid, inflamatory statements suggesting Ireland should also leave the EU, or that it is Ireland's problem, not the UK's.

EFTA/EEA membership solves everyone's problems. Less money sent to the EU every week, the UK won't have to nominate an EU Commissioner, and we won't need our 73 MEPs (and Farage still won't get elected as a UK MP).

We'll no longer be an EU member, but we'll keep the customs union and single market. :p

TrickyTreeRed Dec 5th 2017 5:25 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12393930)
Are you talking about Wallonia veto-ing the deal ? (Just shows how democratic the EU is)

Yup. That's one of the reasons.

Red Eric Dec 5th 2017 6:55 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12393988)
I still don't think the result would be any more predictable - for every pro-Brexit voter who decides it wasn't such a good idea, there will be another pro-EU voter who has got fed up with the wrangling or has been convinced that the EU is a bully, so it's hard to call:huh:.

For sure, everyone knows a but more about what is involved and what is at stake now, but that can cut both ways. I just don't see there being a huge majority against Brexit - so, if the result was just as close, but the other way, the Brexiteers would be justifiably miffed and the genie wouldn't go back into the bottle. If a new vote just confirmed the Brexit decision, where does that get us?

It wouldn't be the same question - that would be pointless, as you say. But further down the line, when the turmoil has taken a bit more of a toll and "deadlines" have passed and been extended and "the deal" has emerged and looks pretty similar to EEA membership, to howls of dismay from the Blue Passports Brigade, who knows? ;) We wouldn't want another 40 Years of Moaning, surely?

Red Eric Dec 5th 2017 6:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TrickyTreeRed (Post 12394102)
Yup. That's one of the reasons.

So you think it's a bad thing to be a member state of the EU because you get a veto on trade deals if they're damaging to your interests?

amideislas Dec 5th 2017 7:04 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
It would be terribly "undemocratic" to allow anyone to have any say in anything. Look, for example, at the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". Nobody has any say in anything there. It's "democracy" at its finest.

007Steve Dec 5th 2017 7:32 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Today is Tuesday.......?

Annetje Dec 5th 2017 8:03 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TrickyTreeRed (Post 12394102)
Yup. That's one of the reasons.

Strange you object to the democratic process within the EU. I think it is good that 1 country can protect their citizens and overrule Brussels.
Unlike the UK where London (read DUP) rules and the other countries have to follow suit :thumbdown:

Annetje Dec 5th 2017 8:04 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12394144)
Today is Tuesday.......?

:goodpost: Yesss, is it your birthday ?

Red Eric Dec 5th 2017 8:12 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12394153)
Strange you object to the democratic process within the EU. I think it is good that 1 country can protect their citizens and overrule Brussels.
Unlike the UK where London (read DUP) rules and the other countries have to follow suit :thumbdown:

Yes, it's a bit odd that anyone should object to that, isn't it? Especially given the fuss made over the mooted TTIP deal.

iano Dec 5th 2017 8:37 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
“What an absolutely ludicrous, incompetent, absurd, make it up as you go along, couldn’t run a piss up in a brewery bunch of jokers there are running the government at the most critical time in a generation for the country.”

Ed Miliband on Twitter.

Brexit means Brexit, Ed

Annetje Dec 5th 2017 11:30 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Can someone remind me who it is that is leading the country ?


Arlene Foster rules out meeting Theresa May today as DUP said to be 'far away' from deal on Irish border

Tessa or Arlie ... Arlie or Tessa ?

:confused::confused:

007Steve Dec 5th 2017 11:52 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12394155)
:goodpost: Yesss, is it your birthday ?

No Annetje..., I was waiting for Arlene to say if that was OK.with her...

Incidentally, why's it now called Northern Ireland? I distinctly recall it used to be Ulster.... I was recommended to buy Ulster Bacon, told that Ulster Linen was a 1st class Christmas gift, & could support the football team – the Ulster XI.
Then, later on, some red-faced guy in a dog-collar screamed from the TV in apoplexy that Ulster said No;- things had been that way since 16.. ohh something ...Never, Never, Never he used to yell...
I do have it right don't I?... the whole obscenity over there was founded by royalty with his mate religion?

Excuse me while I go & lay down. I'm getting Republican urges again.....

EMR Dec 5th 2017 11:59 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Does anyone have the remotest idea anymore what brexit means .?


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