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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:11 pm
  #24586  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Two questions: do you think Cameron and Corbyn’s team ran a campaign free of threats and disinformation, and do you think Project Fear (which is what it was) was worse or better or on the same level as the Leave campaign?
I think Project Fear was the Leave campaign and I was reliably informed - by Remainers, Leavers and sitters-on-the-fence - that Corbyn ran no campaign at all.

I also believe that although some things said during the Remain campaign may have been mere speculation, the way the Leave campaigns leapt to exaggerate those matters was entirely in keeping with the rest of their distortions.

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
This is just sour grapes on your part.
No it isn't and you ought to learn what the phrase actually means if you're going to use it. Nobody who voted remain can possibly be accused of sour grapes.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:15 pm
  #24587  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The EU was founded 24 years ago!
So those who went on and on and on and on about the common market were just as confused as all those I referred to.
Unicorn chasers to a man and woman.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:16 pm
  #24588  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Why were you not convinced?

The 'other' Post EU Referendum thread, where posts regarding an important non-EU country and (source of UK investment and job creation) are segregated.
The smilie was to indicate--that I find it humerous with all this talk of 'leaver' Xenophobia!
Ummmm, I don't want to intrude on this private spat, but let's have a little accuracy here.

Firstly, the "other" thread is not "Apartheid", it is a recognition that not everyone is as interested in the minutiae of Anglo-Indian relations as you. It exists so that you can post endlessly about your favoured subject and others can decide whether or not they wish to take part. I have myself suggested that new threads be created when I have found none-core posts are threatening to hijack a thread, there is no difference.

Secondly, according to THIS, the "important non-EU country" to which you refer imported about half as much UK produce as Ireland in 2015 and exported about a quarter the value to the UK. Trade with other EU partners is far, far, higher. Exports to Australia and Canada are almost equal and trade with the USA makes it pale into insignificance. This is not to say that India is not important to the UK, but to put its significance into context.

Finally, to assume that there is no racism or friction in the non-white UK population is laughable. The phenomenon of migrants "pulling up the ladder" behind them is not unknown and they are not immune from seeing the "threat" in "others" (as some of you own posts have shown).

Oh - and before you jump, remember, I'm not British either!
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:22 pm
  #24589  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by iano View Post
....from the Mail. Or, the Sun. Or, the Express.
...... or from the Guardian, the BBC, the Mirror ...
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:26 pm
  #24590  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Listen up, people, I am very happy the way things are going. We are leaving the EU. It is what I voted for and it will happen. Nothing is troubling me and I am not anxious, but you call this a debate? It is one big Remainer egotistical piss-taking smiley-faced whingefest. A debate? Give over.
Nailed it!
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:33 pm
  #24591  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Nailed it!
OR to put it in Brexit language, we have got what we wanted and who gives a flying foo faa about what happens afterwards.
It will not be our fault or anything to do with what we voted for.

NAILED IT.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:35 pm
  #24592  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
OR to put it in Brexit language, we have got what we wanted and who gives a flying foo faa about what happens afterwards.
It will not be our fault or anything to do with what we voted for.

NAILED IT.
Except they don't have what they wanted. At the moment, they don't have anything at all except May and Gove and a boatload of uncertainty, while all the bloody foreigners are still there.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:39 pm
  #24593  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Remain ran a poisonous campaign unashamedly using misinformation and disinformation while threatening everyone from the elderly to the young with everything from no care workers to unemployment to World War Three. I will not go through their toxic premonitions so don’t ask me. If you think Cameron and Corbyn did not overstep the mark then you and I have different views on the matter. This is just sour grapes on your part. Leave voters looked at the Remain lies and misinformation and saw through it. One must give them credit for that.

Two questions: do you think Cameron and Corbyn’s team ran a campaign free of threats and disinformation, and do you think Project Fear (which is what it was) was worse or better or on the same level as the Leave campaign?
Two wrongs don't make a right!

Many pro-EU campaigners were frustrated and disappointed by the exaggerated claims made by those who mistakenly thought to combat the similarly exaggerated claims of the leave side with their own hyperbole. However - let's look at the situation since Brexit was announced: The pound has lost significant exchange value; Stocks in Sterling-bound companies (i.e. those non-multinationals that don't report in Dollars) have taken a hit; The growth rate has plummeted; Inflation has increased and real incomes are under increasing threat - so it hasn't exactly been rosy, has it? - and were not even out of the EU yet!!

Cameron was a weak leader who hocked the UK's future in an attempt to retain power in his own party - and Corbyn has been a long-term opponent of the EU and was barely visible during the campaign (but then, why let the truth get in the way of another chance to have a dig?). The remain campaign failed to undo years of drip-feed misinformation or to address the positive nature of the EU - it just got sucked into the all-too-familiar negativity of recent British politics.

As has already been pointed out, sour grapes is the wrong expression to use (see Aesop's fable), but whilst you're checking out the reason why, I suggest you check out Pyrrhic victory too.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:45 pm
  #24594  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I suggest you check out Pyrrhic victory too.
Exactly.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:46 pm
  #24595  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Ummmm, I don't want to intrude on this private spat, but let's have a little accuracy here.

Firstly, the "other" thread is not "Apartheid", it is a recognition that not everyone is as interested in the minutiae of Anglo-Indian relations as you. It exists so that you can post endlessly about your favoured subject and others can decide whether or not they wish to take part. I have myself suggested that new threads be created when I have found none-core posts are threatening to hijack a thread, there is no difference.

Secondly, according to THIS, the "important non-EU country" to which you refer imported about half as much UK produce as Ireland in 2015 and exported about a quarter the value to the UK. Trade with other EU partners is far, far, higher. Exports to Australia and Canada are almost equal and trade with the USA makes it pale into insignificance. This is not to say that India is not important to the UK, but to put its significance into context.

Finally, to assume that there is no racism or friction in the non-white UK population is laughable. The phenomenon of migrants "pulling up the ladder" behind them is not unknown and they are not immune from seeing the "threat" in "others" (as some of you own posts have shown).

Oh - and before you jump, remember, I'm not British either!
Regarding separation of the other thread for the most part I only answer other posts.
The lengthy parts were generally started when a 'Remainer' made the frequent remarks about regaining the 'Empire' and knowing nil about it!

Third largest investor in the UK after USA and France / second largest job creator. It is not all about exports.

Along with Poland the largest groups of migrant origin people in the UK! The sub-continent as a whole --the largest group.

I don't think anyone has said that there is no racism or friction within the non-white UK population.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:49 pm
  #24596  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Except they don't have what they wanted. At the moment, they don't have anything at all except May and Gove and a boatload of uncertainty, while all the bloody foreigners are still there.
Yes - that's the situation manch is 'very happy' with.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:55 pm
  #24597  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

In retrospect there was huge complacency amongst the Remain camp, and as always where complacency exists, it's because nobody believed turkeys would actually vote for Christmas.

The bigger issue is that now that the turkeys are ruling the roost, nobody is doing anything about it. Well, Nick Clegg, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Hesseltine and few others are making strong cases, but not enough people on the Remain side are taking them seriously.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 2:57 pm
  #24598  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
No it isn't and you ought to learn what the phrase actually means if you're going to use it. Nobody who voted remain can possibly be accused of sour grapes.
As I understand it, the phrase originally meant "pretending you didn't want something that you couldn't have"?? I think it was in Aesop's Fables and there was a fox involved but I don't remember the details.

However, in contemporary usage it is oft used, erroneously, to describe something like Remoaning. In sum I think you are both correct in different ways
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 3:04 pm
  #24599  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
OR to put it in Brexit language, we have got what we wanted and who gives a flying foo faa about what happens afterwards.
It will not be our fault or anything to do with what we voted for.

NAILED IT.
I should have highlighted this bit:
but you call this a debate? It is one big Remainer egotistical piss-taking smiley-faced whingefest. A debate? Give over.
The rest doesn't apply to me, as I am a remain voter.
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Old Nov 30th 2017, 3:07 pm
  #24600  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

I repeat: do you think Cameron ran a campaign free of threats and disinformation? Do you think Project Fear was worse, better or on the same level as the Leave campaign? All it takes is a yes or a no. Any offers.

And don’t preach English to me. I know some of you think you are intellectually superior to the rest of us, hence the constant corrections and piss-taking with posters’ grammar, but leave it out. One slips up. It was a post not a bloody thesis.

LIW, everything on here has been answered multiple times.

I see we’re back to the whingers. Moan. Moan. Moan.
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