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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 13th 2017, 5:32 pm
  #23776  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Another win for the remainiacs.
So you are now opposed to our Parliamentary system.
Is there anything about the 21st century UK that you are happy with.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 5:34 pm
  #23777  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Simple question,
What is wrong with the changing multi cultural, multi ethnic, religious and economic mix of London, the UK and why ?
Look up you numerous past posts if you need any help.
Strawman argument - I have not complained about the cultural, ethnic, religious mix of London and the UK. Look up my previous posts and show me specifically where I have.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 5:41 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
So you are saying that because I pay for all my own services and then pay for several other people's services I am being given a subsidy?

I am saying that you directly benefit from things that you have not directly paid for. You may consider that you have paid for "your piece" of a national education system, for example. But common goods are things into which we collectively pay - and which our elected government helps to accomplish - to accomplish an end that individuals alone cannot. Individualism is not an adequate concept for explaining how a society functions well (god knows I know that, living where I do). If the population were not as a whole educated, there would be ramifications far beyond "services" and they would impact you, and all of us, negatively.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 5:47 pm
  #23779  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
So you are saying that because I pay for all my own services and then pay for several other people's services I am being given a subsidy?
What you pay for the NHS for example and other benefits is a form of insurance which YOU might one day need.
We could have said the same as you until 3 months ago. The amount of top class treatment a family member is getting and will continue to get for some time would have taken everything we all possessed without the NHS, and we go down on our knees in thanks for it.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 5:51 pm
  #23780  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
What you pay for the NHS for example and other benefits is a form of insurance which YOU might one day need.
We could have said the same as you until 3 months ago. The amount of top class treatment a family member is getting and will continue to get for some time would have taken everything we all possessed without the NHS, and we go down on our knees in thanks for it.
And everybody benefits from that - not just your relative and your family. The economy benefits because you and your family are not bankrupted and can continue to participate in the economy. If your family member is still of working age, then the company s/he works for will continue to benefit from their acquired expertise rather than losing the employee to illness and having to start again. The list goes on.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 5:52 pm
  #23781  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I am saying that you directly benefit from things that you have not directly paid for. You may consider that you have paid for "your piece" of a national education system, for example. But common goods are things into which we collectively pay - and which our elected government helps to accomplish - to accomplish an end that individuals alone cannot. Individualism is not an adequate concept for explaining how a society functions well (god knows I know that, living where I do). If the population were not as a whole educated, there would be ramifications far beyond "services" and they would impact you, and all of us, negatively.
And you are saying that subsidising someones housing in one of the most expensive locations in the world is a common good? That a warehouse worker in a rough part of Wolverhampton should pay more tax for the "common good" of keeping a single mum ensconced in a flat in Chelsea rather than somewhere cheaper?
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 5:54 pm
  #23782  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
What you pay for the NHS for example and other benefits is a form of insurance which YOU might one day need.
We could have said the same as you until 3 months ago. The amount of top class treatment a family member is getting and will continue to get for some time would have taken everything we all possessed without the NHS, and we go down on our knees in thanks for it.
Yes, I pay for myself and I might need to use it, I also pay for others use of it, but I fail to see how it is subsidy for me when I pay for it.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:06 pm
  #23783  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
So you are now opposed to our Parliamentary system.
Is there anything about the 21st century UK that you are happy with.
Remainiacs haven't forced this for parliamentary reasons, they have done it to try and stop brexit, in the face of the will of the British people.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:11 pm
  #23784  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

There's actually little difference in how the NHS is paid for than say, in Germany. The difference seems to be that in Britain, it's part of taxation, so it's less differentiated, while in much of "the rest of the world", you're obliged to buy health insurance. Often, that "insurance" is state-subsidised, such as AOK in Germany. In any case, you still pay for it. It isn't "free" (unless of course, you're stint). And healthcare isn't "free" anywhere. Not even in Britain. The system simply gives the public the impression that it is.

Now, as Britain's economics inevitably downsize, it begs the question of whether the NHS is sustainable under the current system. It needs more money, but there's less to go around, so how does that square with reality?
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:18 pm
  #23785  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
And you are saying that subsidising someones housing in one of the most expensive locations in the world is a common good? That a warehouse worker in a rough part of Wolverhampton should pay more tax for the "common good" of keeping a single mum ensconced in a flat in Chelsea rather than somewhere cheaper?
No.

I am quite capable of recognizing straw men when I see them you know.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:21 pm
  #23786  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Remainiacs haven't forced this for parliamentary reasons, they have done it to try and stop brexit, in the face of the will of the British people.
Oh for goodness sake, stop the Daily Mail hysteria. The Parliamentary system is how the will of the people is expressed, not by a cabal of government officials.

Parliament won't be "stopping" us from leaving. If anything, the exit is likely to be "harder" due to Parliament not passing whatever idiocy May and Davis come up with.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:22 pm
  #23787  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Yes, I pay for myself and I might need to use it, I also pay for others use of it, but I fail to see how it is subsidy for me when I pay for it.
Then you don't understand the term "common good". You keep thinking in terms of subsidies because you are worried someone might be getting something for nothing.

Have a read:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/common-good
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:24 pm
  #23788  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Anyway, Parliament will now get a look-in.

Parliament to get binding vote on final Brexit deal - BBC News
I understand this will only apply if there is ''a deal''.
If no deal, the UK will jump without Parliament approval ...
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:26 pm
  #23789  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
I understand this will only apply if there is ''a deal''.
If no deal, the UK will jump without Parliament approval ...
Yes, Parliament can't approve something that doesn't exist.

Article 50 has been declared and approved, so we will be leaving - that has already been approved. The terms of the leaving have not, because the government has been unable to produce any.
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Old Nov 13th 2017, 6:26 pm
  #23790  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Strawman argument - I have not complained about the cultural, ethnic, religious mix of London and the UK. Look up my previous posts and show me specifically where I have.
So you are happy with the population mix in zone 2.
There are no fecund immigrants.
Was it your twin bother who posted those comments.
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