British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Shard Sep 28th 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12349061)
All along, I was of the impression that England Britain voted to leave the EU. And the post-referendum rhetoric certainly assured leave voters that this is precisely what it is doing.

The irony, of course, is that all along, it's been a paradox. Yes, we're leaving, but we still want all the benefits (see post-referendum rhetoric from a number of top officials).

Well, no, you're not going to have the cake and eat it. OK, in the last few weeks, it appears the Brexit team has [begrudgingly] accepted that (more or less). They're still fighting about it behind closed doors, but reality is well and truly beginning to set in.

So, OK, no cake, no dessert. So now what are you waiting for? A "trade deal"? You mean something like the one you already have which extends to 750-odd others around the world, the cumulation of decades of negotiation? which you'll now have to renegotiate in record time with few resources and minimal leverage? That one? Oh yeah... minus the stuff you don't like, such as foreigners, customs, contributions, rules and stuff (as if none of that will matter to the "rest of the world"). Right, then.

So, anyway... I thought you were leaving? It's a doddle, right? Well, what are you waiting for? Benefits street? Other people's money? What?

This x100.

InVinoVeritas Sep 28th 2017 3:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12349061)
All along, I was of the impression that England Britain voted to leave the EU. And the post-referendum rhetoric certainly assured leave voters that this is precisely what it is doing.

The irony, of course, is that all along, it's been a paradox. Yes, we're leaving, but we still want all the benefits (see post-referendum rhetoric from a number of top officials).

Well, no, you're not going to have the cake and eat it. OK, in the last few weeks, it appears the Brexit team has [begrudgingly] accepted that (more or less). They're still fighting about it behind closed doors, but reality is well and truly beginning to set in.

So, OK, no cake, no dessert. So now what are you waiting for? A "trade deal"? You mean something like the one you already have which extends to 750-odd others around the world, the cumulation of decades of negotiation? which you'll now have to renegotiate in record time from a position of weakness, few resources and minimal leverage? That one? Oh yeah... minus the stuff you don't like, such as foreigners, customs, contributions, rules and stuff (as if none of that will matter to the "rest of the world"). Right, then.

So, anyway... I thought you were leaving? It's a doddle, right? Well, what are you waiting for? Benefits street? Other people's money? What?

I guess waiting for a government who can deliver, but we're further from that than ever.

There are only two choices now, a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all. At least this question, in a future referendum, will be more straightforward.

mrken30 Sep 28th 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12349061)
All along, I was of the impression that England Britain voted to leave the EU. And the post-referendum rhetoric certainly assured leave voters that this is precisely what it is doing.

The irony, of course, is that all along, it's been a paradox. Yes, we're leaving, but we still want all the benefits (see post-referendum rhetoric from a number of top officials).

Well, no, you're not going to have the cake and eat it. OK, in the last few weeks, it appears the Brexit team has [begrudgingly] accepted that (more or less). They're still fighting about it behind closed doors, but reality is well and truly beginning to set in.

So, OK, no cake, no dessert. So now what are you waiting for? A "trade deal"? You mean something like the one you already have which extends to 750-odd others around the world, the cumulation of decades of negotiation? which you'll now have to renegotiate in record time from a position of weakness, few resources and minimal leverage? That one? Oh yeah... minus the stuff you don't like, such as foreigners, customs, contributions, rules and stuff (as if none of that will matter to the "rest of the world"). Right, then.

So, anyway... I thought you were leaving? It's a doddle, right? Well, what are you waiting for? Benefits street? Other people's money? What?

If they can't have dessert, will the After Eight suffice?

Shard Sep 28th 2017 3:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12349073)
I guess waiting for a government who can deliver, but we're further from that than ever.

There are only two choices now, a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all. At least this question, in a future referendum, will be more straightforward.

Why do you think that? Especially when all current efforts are being aimed at a soft Brexit...

Bipat Sep 28th 2017 3:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12348857)
I presume there's a "feel" and an "alleged" missing there, seeing as the pledge (singular, to the best of my recollection) as written was never broken.

Which means that the feeling of being let down is entirely down to them. They seem not to have learned their lesson though - getting all over-expectant about what they thought they might have voted for in the referendum.

No "feel" or "alleged" --Blair spoke of a referendum in 2004/2005 and it was in the manifesto.
'Tweaking' of the wording in the draft EU Constitution, by Giscard d'Estaing turning it into the Lisbon Treaty ---Gordon Brown signed it!
(We have discussed this all before----):lol:

amideislas Sep 28th 2017 3:40 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12349073)
I guess waiting for a government who can deliver, but we're further from that than ever.

There are only two choices now, a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all. At least this question, in a future referendum, will be more straightforward.

I have news for you; These were really the only two choices all along.

Nonetheless, I've always believed that in the first place, had Ms. May (and her government, [and the British press]) gone to the EU with hat in hand, saying "OK, we voted this way, we have to find a solution. How can we work together to sort this all out?" then things would probably be different.

But that's not what happened, was it? Instead, it was a constant barrage of insults and fabricated nationalistic ideological rhetoric which served no other purpose but to define a "common enemy" amongst the remaining 27, leading to a unified consensus amongst them. And they very well can, because although Brexit is a gargantuan endeavour for Britain, it more closely resembles simply an annoyance to the 27. It could have been different. Very different. But it's much too late for that now.

InVinoVeritas Sep 28th 2017 3:40 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12349078)
Why do you think that? Especially when all current efforts are being aimed at a soft Brexit...

I don't see the EU aiming for this at all, not really in their interests.

Bipat Sep 28th 2017 3:42 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12348978)
The thing that annoys me is that on balance, I thought the emerging European "state" was a good thing. I enjoy being more integrated with Germany, Italy even the Eastern European countries. There are problems, but every big federation has problems, and given the way Europe dealt with problems in the 40's and the 90's (!!!) closer ties seemed the right direction of travel. Like many, when I first got my purple passport, I thought WTF! but over the years grew to appreciate what it represented. Shared European history and ideals. Now, I fear Britain is aiming to isolate itself, avoid Europe, and embrace America and India. It's another path, but not necessarily the one I prefer and not one where Britain can be a big fish (as in the EU). I would say to the Brexiters, be careful what you wish for!

Leaving membership of the EU does not mean isolation from those European countries that are EU members.
Britain has much shared history with America and India.

amideislas Sep 28th 2017 3:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Anyway, on a more local note:

End of an era as Brits ABANDON Majorca after hundreds of ‘arrogant locals’ demand holidaymakers go home
BRITAIN’S love affair with Majorca could be over as holidaymakers prepare to abandon the island after a backlash from "arrogant" locals.

Obviously, this again takes it to some next-level realms of truth and rounded journalism. Not to mention huge irony. 2 of the most vociferous right-wing Brexit propaganda outlets expressing outrage and moral panic that "foreigners" may have a problem with the strain on their housing and public services which has occurred due to being "invaded" by foreigners (Brits of course, are the only ones that matter in this).

NOTE: this is about 10% true. there was some mild backlash against tourism, but mainly because of the huge growth in it in the past 2 years, and the housing shortage as a result of about 30000 private apartments being let illegally to tourists (airBnb syndrome), about 20% of which are Brits - I'd stop short of giving it a "pants on fire" rating, but the Sun and Daily Mail seems to want to convey it's all a plot against Brits ... again .. it's not.

EMR Sep 28th 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12349088)
Leaving membership of the EU does not mean isolation from those European countries that are EU members.
Britain has much shared history with America and India.

Not much evidence of the " special relationship " around today is there.

I am more concerned about the future not the past.

Shard Sep 28th 2017 4:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12349088)
Leaving membership of the EU does not mean isolation from those European countries that are EU members.
Britain has much shared history with America and India.

Isolation is probably too strong a word...but it is kind of a rejection. It's re-asserting our island mentality. A bit like Japan, but without the same kind of homogenous society. We do have shared history (and language) with American and India, but neither country particularly views Britain as an equal partner.

SultanOfSwing Sep 28th 2017 4:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12349088)
Britain has much shared history with America and India.

Ireland would like a word.

Assanah Sep 28th 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12348993)
I don’t hate Germany. I hate the EU. Yes, the German economy is in full swing but not despite Brexit. We haven’t left yet, have we? You can have all the hard working immigrants you want. I personally know of some Romanians who are at this very moment making their way from London to Germany and Austria to take German and Austrian jobs. It isn’t project fear but project reality.

EU workers leaving UK is helping job vacancies grow, pushing up salaries - Business Insider

It’s what we voted for.

Sigh, there are no Germans who are willing to take the jobs that is why they are open 🤓

You should consider that if you want to sell your products and services worldwide, "global Britain" you call it, you not only need to produce products that people want but you also need to sell them at prices that people can pay. Since your government is hellbent on seeing its salvation in trade with countries such as Brasil and India I suggest to spare a minute and think very carefully about the consequences of higher salaries.

Btw, Germany was one of the biggest loser of the financial crisis 2008, losing nearly 500 billion Euros. Especially hard hit was the car industry and engine building. So please do yourself a favor and don't think for a minute we are not prepared to take ecomonic hits. Please keep on sending those workers. I personally know of a German lawyer and a British scientist , both very well educated and established, who are on route to Germany now. Thank you Brexit.

olivefarmer Sep 28th 2017 4:05 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Just ploughed through the last four pages which frankly are just repeats of what was said days, weeks and months ago.

No mention of Macron's proposed EU and Eurozone reforms. Anyone got any views on them and the way the EU might be heading?

Bipat Sep 28th 2017 4:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12349125)
Ireland would like a word.

Agree---I was replying to a post which just mentioned the two countries.


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