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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Former Lancastrian Aug 29th 2016 11:39 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Has anyone looked at it this way?

Before the election UKIP were stating that if they were elected they would take the UK out of the EU and a bunch of other stuff to deal with being independent.
The tories saw their support increasing and started to get a little scared and for some reason promised a referendum on the UK leaving the EU after the election.
Now it never occurred to them that they would lose this vote and not prepared for Nigel and the UKIP drumming up support after the election and before the referendum.
Now any sensible Govt would have thought to ask the question what happens if we lose this referendum and with that in mind have a plan ready if they lost as they were the ones calling for the referendum.
So now they lost the vote and are still the governing party and they called the referendum so isn't it up to them to have a Brexit plan?
Im sure the UKIP had an idea on what they would do if they were in power and had won a Brexit vote but Im pretty sure May and her cabinet are not likely to implement this plan nor ask for any advice.

Lion in Winter Aug 30th 2016 1:49 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12038502)
Has anyone looked at it this way?

Before the election UKIP were stating that if they were elected they would take the UK out of the EU and a bunch of other stuff to deal with being independent.
The tories saw their support increasing and started to get a little scared and for some reason promised a referendum on the UK leaving the EU after the election.
Now it never occurred to them that they would lose this vote and not prepared for Nigel and the UKIP drumming up support after the election and before the referendum.
Now any sensible Govt would have thought to ask the question what happens if we lose this referendum and with that in mind have a plan ready if they lost as they were the ones calling for the referendum.
So now they lost the vote and are still the governing party and they called the referendum so isn't it up to them to have a Brexit plan?
Im sure the UKIP had an idea on what they would do if they were in power and had won a Brexit vote but Im pretty sure May and her cabinet are not likely to implement this plan nor ask for any advice.

I would agree with most of that except for the bit about UKIP having an idea about what they would do. They were having trouble finding any even vaguely reasonable people to be candidates for their party. The odds of that lot being able to put together and execute an exit plan and new trade agreements are, well, laughably low.

Cameron was grossly irresponsible in calling the referendum, in failing to provide a coherent and understandable argument for staying in response to the Arron Banks-funded exit campaign, and then in joining all the other leavers, Farage included, who ran away as fast as their little legs could carry them when the time for rhetoric was over and the time for policy, intelligence and skill had arrived. They are all reprehensible.

TGA Aug 30th 2016 5:16 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrDrHyzWgAAsjZv.jpg:large

Wol Aug 30th 2016 5:56 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12038028)
I'm more than happy to debate/discuss things like the Brexit terms etc but have very little if any patience with the Remainiacs (as opposed to the Remainers) who squeal for a 2nd referendum because they didn't get what they wanted the fist time around or who insist the house of vermin in ermine can & will refuse to allow Brexit etc etc etc.

The fact is the majority voted out & that's what'll happen whether they like it or not......so maybe we should get over that part of the debate & instead discuss the pros & cons of what we'd like to happen in the various parts of the Brexit negotiations.

And, as has been pointed out many times in the MSM, the overwhelming majority of MPs voted FOR a referendum. No doubt many thought it was going to be "stay" when they did. Perhaps the EUphiles among them will demand another referendum until they get the right answer?

I don't think many thinking Brexiters imagined that disentangling a country from the EU was going to be straightforward especially since so much of the relevant negotiation has been given to Brussels over the years, but it has to be done.

mfesharne Aug 30th 2016 6:00 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by BEVS (Post 12038458)
Quotes people. Quotes! :sad_smile:

Check before you post please. You need One at the beginning and one at the end of what you wish to quote. Thanks.

BEVS

For me at least, the quotes function wasn't working properly for a while..... I wonder perhaps if there was an upgrade being done on the site because a couple of new functions (that I don't seem to be able to turn off) appeared at the same time?

Red Eric Aug 30th 2016 7:25 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12038178)
From Eric

"When we were discussing the matter of "border control" previously, you very much gave me the impression that all visitors, from whatever country and on however short a stay should need a visa before being allowed entry.

Is that still your view?"

Yes. Absolutely.

I see nothing wrong with asking everyone applying for entry to prove who they are & state what they intend to do in the UK etc and have each applicant security checked before the visa is granted/refused.

It's not the complete answer to the security problem but it's a good start.

Do you mean that these visas should be obtained before travel? Or could they be dished out on arrival?

Red Eric Aug 30th 2016 7:45 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12038071)
Top of my wish list but not necessarily in order are:

...

Scrap the HRA & replace it with a proper constitution that protects the law abiding citizens rather than the criminals/illegals etc.

To avoid later disappointment (and I'm sure I've pointed this one out before), Teresa May has now changed her mind on scrapping the HRA and withdrawing from the ECHR and as she's now the PM it's probably therefore not going to be on the agenda - certainly not as part of Brexit. Given that the reason she abandoned the idea was that she couldn't rustle up enough support even amongst her own party it seems unlikely to be something that would happen even if she were replaced as leader. So that one might have to wait until Nu UKIP take the reigns.

EMR Aug 30th 2016 8:15 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12038393)
Thats rich coming from someone who got the result wrong, the immediate aftermath wrong and just about every other forecast totally wrong. :ohmy:

I'm looking forward to you forecasting Brexit being a failure, then I'll be able to live in blissful (with one L) happiness.

:thumbsup:

Brexit what Brexit, please give us one example of anything in our economic relationship with the EU and the rest of the world that has changed.
How many new trade agreements have been agreed or even being discussed.
Has anything changed regarding the UK immigration policies etc etc etc.
Brexit ( what ever watered down version emerges ) will not be a failure because it will be nothing like you and many extreme brexiters voted for.
I believe that we remainers will be a lot happier than many brexiters.

mfesharne Aug 30th 2016 8:20 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12038650)
Do you mean that these visas should be obtained before travel? Or could they be dished out on arrival?

Before travel....... one option would be similar to the US one where the applicant applies online ..... I'm sure you remember the case we discussed recently when a so called 'family group' of all males including a number of youngsters were refused travel at the last minute because one of them had an address that had registered to a dodgy (Taliban?) website.

If the Yanks can do it then can the UK.

mfesharne Aug 30th 2016 8:27 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12038660)
To avoid later disappointment (and I'm sure I've pointed this one out before), Teresa May has now changed her mind on scrapping the HRA and withdrawing from the ECHR and as she's now the PM it's probably therefore not going to be on the agenda - certainly not as part of Brexit. Given that the reason she abandoned the idea was that she couldn't rustle up enough support even amongst her own party it seems unlikely to be something that would happen even if she were replaced as leader. So that one might have to wait until Nu UKIP take the reigns.

I doubt there's any need for it to be part of the Brexit deal because once the UK is independent it can make it's own laws & won't be bound by the EU nor is it up to TM whether either or both be scrapped.

It'd be a parliamentary process where an MP puts forward a motion which is then debated & passed or otherwise........ just like any other motion.

We can't see into the future so don't know but my guess (and hope) is the HRA at least will be scrapped fairly soon after Brexit & replaced with a proper constitution that's more aimed at protecting the rights of the law abiding citizen & less at protecting the rights of the criminal.

I'm sure a significant percentage of the electorate would (at the very least) want to see the 'right to family life' loophole scrapped & replaced with the principle of deport the immigrant offender & if the family want to stay with him/her, they're perfectly welcome to bugger off as well.

mfesharne Aug 30th 2016 8:34 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12038672)
Brexit what Brexit, please give us one example of anything in our economic relationship with the EU and the rest of the world that has changed.
How many new trade agreements have been agreed or even being discussed.
Has anything changed regarding the UK immigration policies etc etc etc.
Brexit ( what ever watered down version emerges ) will not be a failure because it will be nothing like you and many extreme brexiters voted for.
I believe that we remainers will be a lot happier than many brexiters.

The very obvious flaw in that argument is that none of those things can even begin to happen until Brexit is complete because until then, the UK is ruled by the EU but it cannot be denied a lot of countries are already expressing interest in doing deals with the newly independent UK.

Brexiters voted for Brexit & won the referendum & the point of Brexit is exactly that. Therefore the next logical step is to trigger A50 & get on with the negotiations but no matter what happens in those negotiations, Brexit must happen & only after it's completed can the UK begin to make it's own laws.

Simple really.

Bipat Aug 30th 2016 8:38 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12038660)
To avoid later disappointment (and I'm sure I've pointed this one out before), Teresa May has now changed her mind on scrapping the HRA and withdrawing from the ECHR and as she's now the PM it's probably therefore not going to be on the agenda - certainly not as part of Brexit. Given that the reason she abandoned the idea was that she couldn't rustle up enough support even amongst her own party it seems unlikely to be something that would happen even if she were replaced as leader. So that one might have to wait until Nu UKIP take the reigns.

How many times does it have to be said? The HRA and ECHR are not related to the EU.
Theresa May has complained many times that the ECHR (the Convention) needs to be updated or she would consider withdrawal. However it would cause other countries to mention hypocrisy when the UK criticises their human rights.

Bipat Aug 30th 2016 8:42 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12038650)
Do you mean that these visas should be obtained before travel? Or could they be dished out on arrival?

What is the problem with obtaining visas before travel? Those that travel around the world to or from the UK are used to this, it is no great difficulty!!
E-visas can be issued for particular countries.

jimenato Aug 30th 2016 9:37 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12038685)
How many times does it have to be said? The HRA and ECHR are not related to the EU...

In his post, Eric makes it perfectly clear that he knows that. Most remainers do as they generally know a lot more about the EU and Europe than leavers do.

You are unusual in being a leaver who knows it.

jimenato Aug 30th 2016 9:56 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The advantages of remaining in explained in simple terms for leavers...



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