British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Lion in Winter May 23rd 2017 4:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258795)
We?

I thought you had buggered off somewhere sunny and left "us" to deal with and pay for the failed EU project.

Leaving the EU is exactly damage control. Fixing the damage caused by being in the EU and its chronic inability to sort out the basics.

Britain was successful DESPITE the EU, not because of it.

Substantiation and specific evidence required please.

lgm1963 May 23rd 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12258802)
Substantiation and specific evidence required please.

Sure.

As soon as substantiation and evidence of success being entirely due to EU membership is posted.

Breath not being held.

amideislas May 23rd 2017 4:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258795)
We?

I thought you had buggered off somewhere sunny and left "us" to deal with and pay for the failed EU project.

Leaving the EU is exactly damage control. Fixing the damage caused by being in the EU and its chronic inability to sort out the basics.

Britain was successful DESPITE the EU, not because of it.

Erm, hardly "failed". You might have missed that. It was something pre-referendum Brexit promoters were hoping for, but like most Brexit premises, it was also false.

Britain faces some big problems though. But that's what you voted for, so I'm sure you'll accept those consequences as your own responsibility.

Good luck with that.

lgm1963 May 23rd 2017 4:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12258806)
Erm, hardly "failed". You might have missed that. It was something pre-referendum Brexit promoters were hoping for, but like most Brexit premises, it was also false.

Britain faces some big problems though. But that's what you voted for, so I'm sure you'll accept those consequences as your own responsibility.

Good luck with that.

thank you.

I suspect you have once again deliberately misconstrued what "failed means.

The EU has failed abyssmally to secure its borders.

The EU has failed abysmally to deal with assist those nations struggling with vast numbers of migrants floating across the Med.

The EU has failed abysmally to properly assess the suitability of potential members of its club.

And so on.....

And good luck to you in finding the ten billion in subs you will have to find from the impoverished nations left behind.

Lion in Winter May 23rd 2017 5:20 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258805)
Sure.

As soon as substantiation and evidence of success being entirely due to EU membership is posted.

Breath not being held.

You expressed an opinion that needs substantiating - that British success was in spite of the EU. What did the EU do to inhibit its success?

I'm not sure that anyone has ever said that any success Britain has enjoyed over the last 45 years has been entirely due to EU membership have they? I haven't anyway.

EMR May 23rd 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258805)
Sure.

As soon as substantiation and evidence of success being entirely due to EU membership is posted.

Breath not being held.

I will ask you a very simple question.
Would Toyota, Nissan, Honda, BMW , etc etc, the 100s of companies who invested in the UK because they could sell their products tariff free into the EU be here if they had to pay a tax on every car etc sold to Germany, France , Italy and so on.
It's not too difficult a question to answer is it.
If you think that they would still have invested then explain why ?

SultanOfSwing May 23rd 2017 5:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258766)
The "context" was my belief that the EU "direction of travel" is towards, effectively, it becoming a Greater Germany.

A) that's complete bullshit
B) it's irrelevant anyway since the UK is leaving.


Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258805)
Sure.

As soon as substantiation and evidence of success being entirely due to EU membership is posted.

Breath not being held.

You're the one making the claim, the burden of proof is squarely on you. It's not our fault you have none.

amideislas May 23rd 2017 6:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258808)
thank you.

I suspect you have once again deliberately misconstrued what "failed means.

The EU has failed abyssmally to secure its borders.

The EU has failed abysmally to deal with assist those nations struggling with vast numbers of migrants floating across the Med.

The EU has failed abysmally to properly assess the suitability of potential members of its club.

And so on.....

And good luck to you in finding the ten billion in subs you will have to find from the impoverished nations left behind.

Did you get that from the mail, the sun, or the express?

Golden Years May 23rd 2017 6:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12258844)
A) that's complete bullshit
B) it's irrelevant anyway since the UK is leaving.

A) I really don't care what you think of my opinion.
B) Unlike you, many of us will continue to live next door to the EU, have holiday homes in the EU, and make regular visits to the EU. So, the evolution of the EU over the coming years is not irrelevant simply because the UK is stepping out.

Red Eric May 23rd 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258808)
The EU has failed abysmally to deal with assist those nations struggling with vast numbers of migrants floating across the Med.

I think the Commission might have politely asked Cameron if he wouldn't mind agreeing to take a few and there was this hysterical tantrum which ensued before Cameron said the UK was going to jolly well exercise its opt out on all matters immigration and asylum and wouldn't be taking any at all who were already in the EU. He may have added "over my dead body" - or was that over something else on which they decided to test him to see if he really was a man of his word and found him wanting?

Anyway, so much for "the EU failed abysmally" on that front. And thanks, UK. Well done. Very accommodating of you. The EU is actually a collection of nations, of which the UK was, and for the moment still is, one. It just happens to be one of the furthest from the fallout from its unnecessary wars and separated from most of the others by a moat.

Not that I wish to reignite the whole asylum seekers thing. It's been done to death and it's served it's very useful purpose in the Brexit saga of securing a Leave vote, despite the fact that it was all firmly at arms' length from the UK.

SultanOfSwing May 23rd 2017 7:11 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258884)
A) I really don't care what you think of my opinion.
B) Unlike you, many of us will continue to live next door to the EU, have holiday homes in the EU, and make regular visits to the EU. So, the evolution of the EU over the coming years is not irrelevant simply because the UK is stepping out.

Then, addressing point B, would it not have been better to stay in, so that the UK can continue to have an influence (and a veto) in the decision making process?

Seems to me if the UK wants to run away like a coward, they can't really bitch about what goes on once they are gone.

amideislas May 23rd 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258884)
A) I really don't care what you think of my opinion.
B) Unlike you, many of us will continue to live next door to the EU, have holiday homes in the EU, and make regular visits to the EU. So, the evolution of the EU over the coming years is not irrelevant simply because the UK is stepping out.

If you can afford it.

It seems England Britain will have many other things to worry about than buying a holiday home in some "Britain in the sun" location abroad. And flights over to the third-world will be fewer and expensive, too.

I reckon Margate or Blackpool are rather ideal for Brits. OK, they only get sun for maybe 4 weeks, but hey, small sacrifice for "taking back control", eh? And Europeans won't likely miss you anyway... Win-Win.

Golden Years May 23rd 2017 7:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12258904)
Then, addressing point B, would it not have been better to stay in, so that the UK can continue to have an influence (and a veto) in the decision making process?

Seems to me if the UK wants to run away like a coward, they can't really bitch about what goes on once they are gone.

"Continue to have influence"? Never had any, would not have had any in the future. The EU want an ever closer union, we just wanted a free trade group.

I don't understand why you think the UK is running away "like a coward". We want to remain a sovereign nation, trading wherever we can in the world on our own terms not those the EU Customs Union forces on us.

If what "goes on" afterwards affects us then we can and will "bitch" about it and try to minimise any adverse effects.

Golden Years May 23rd 2017 7:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12258912)
If you can afford it.

It seems England Britain will have many other things to worry about than buying a holiday home in some "Britain in the sun" location abroad. And flights over to the third-world will be fewer and expensive, too.

I reckon Margate or Blackpool are rather ideal for Brits. OK, they only get sun for maybe 4 weeks, but hey, small sacrifice for "taking back control", eh? And Europeans won't likely miss you anyway... Win-Win.

I appreciate your concern but we can afford it, as can many of our compatriots.

Haven't noticed that the city of Valencia was especially "Britain in the Sun" but I'll look again when we get back next month. Not sure what you meant about flights over to the third world but, rest assured, we have no plans to go to Africa or certain parts of Asia. Meanwhile, we can get round trip flights to most parts of Spain for about £100. Maybe that will double, you think? We will manage, don't fret.

SultanOfSwing May 23rd 2017 7:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258917)
"Continue to have influence"? Never had any, would not have had any in the future. The EU want an ever closer union, we just wanted a free trade group.

Well, however you spin it, there certainly will be no chance of having any influence once it's left.


Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258917)
I don't understand why you think the UK is running away "like a coward". We want to remain a sovereign nation, trading wherever we can in the world on our own terms not those the EU Customs Union forces on us.

It certainly looks like it is running away. Nobody can predict the future but if you're going to dismiss any potential positive effect of remaining in the EU using that metric, that also means all these post-Brexit assurances can be similarly dismissed.


Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258917)
If what "goes on" afterwards affects us then we can and will "bitch" about it and try to minimise any adverse effects.

I guess the UK can bitch and moan all they want, but that doesn't mean that the EU has to listen to them.


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