British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

aries Aug 21st 2016 9:23 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12031228)
Oh, Dick, you just did it again! It's common knowledge that Jean Monnet never said any such thing. Those are the words of an ultra conservative author, who wrote that in the late 1990s.

Your Daily Express style claims of EU armageddon are troubling.

Far scarier than anything having to do with the EU, is the influence the sensationalist tabloids have over voters. Democracy bent over and ravaged by political rapists.

Have you never considered that the likes of the Guardian do exactly the same, but with their own spin?

My brother is a devout Guardianista and is so brainwashed, he doesn't even like touching other newspapers. I've always read a wide range, it is fascinating how a single event can be interpreted very differently.

Life is like that. During my teens I walked with my brother and another art teacher through Northern Ireland, and at times we stopped to draw old buildings and stone walls. My brother was critical and laughed at my precise photographic eye on life and said that art is about interpretation, not precise reality.

Since those days he has become more and more pompous, but if we accept that we all have our own interpretations about what we see and believe, why are those who wanted to stay in the EU so bitter and angry that the referendum went against them?

I could easily blame the ridiculous British climate, but of course it is open to interpretation!

amideislas Aug 21st 2016 9:39 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Well, again, unless Britain imposes a ban on European imports, Britain won't stop buying German or any other European goods. What would be the point?

And the only major British export to Europe is financial services (trillions flowing through it, generating the largest tax revenues of any sector in Britain), which Europeans are looking forward to moving to Europe. After all, Europe only needs to deny post-brexit FS passporting rights, and it all moves to the continent. It's already happening.

Merkel is right. Pull the trigger, Britain, and do it now, please. In the subsequent "negotiations", just say no, and watch the "deer in the headlights" look. And of course the inevitable ridiculous rhetoric in the British tabloids claiming the EU to be "extorting" Britain out of the "entitlements" that Britain expects in its boundless exceptionalism. And that will likely only inflame more irrational behaviour on Britain's part, angrily walking out of the room with no deal at all.

I for one, would be disappointed if Britain reversed Brexit. Europe needs a rational partner, not one who exhibits Britain's irrational exceptionalism.

amideislas Aug 21st 2016 10:01 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by aries (Post 12031304)
Have you never considered that the likes of the Guardian do exactly the same, but with their own spin?

My brother is a devout Guardianista and is so brainwashed, he doesn't even like touching other newspapers. I've always read a wide range, it is fascinating how a single event can be interpreted very differently.

Life is like that. During my teens I walked with my brother and another art teacher through Northern Ireland, and at times we stopped to draw old buildings and stone walls. My brother was critical and laughed at my precise photographic eye on life and said that art is about interpretation, not precise reality.

Since those days he has become more and more pompous, but if we accept that we all have our own interpretations about what we see and believe, why are those who wanted to stay in the EU so bitter and angry that the referendum went against them?

I could easily blame the ridiculous British climate, but of course it is open to interpretation!

The guardian is certainly a left leaning rag, but hardly qualifies as "tabloid journalism". Just compare the headlines. No comparison. I'd be very surprised if the guardian would ever publish a headline claiming "European Nuclear War Imminent". But that's standard fare for the (significantly higher readership) tabloids.

DaveLovesDee Aug 21st 2016 10:02 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I was talking with the department head of one of our clients yesterday, and he said he voted Leave because he wasn't European, and wanted to be British on his passport.

I'm confused. Because my passport says I'm British even though it also has the EU symbol.

jimenato Aug 21st 2016 10:12 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by aries (Post 12031304)
...why are those who wanted to stay in the EU so bitter and angry that the referendum went against them? ...

Because it was a stupid decision made for stupid reasons.

Fredbargate Aug 21st 2016 10:54 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12031318)
Because it was a stupid decision made for stupid reasons.

In that case you are living in a stupid country inhabited by a majority of stupid voters.

Have you ever thought of moving ;)

jimenato Aug 21st 2016 11:14 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12031334)
In that case you are living in a stupid country inhabited by a majority of stupid voters.

Have you ever thought of moving ;)

I could move to where you are Fred - your country got it right.:thumbup:

DaveLovesDee Aug 21st 2016 11:14 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12031334)
In that case you are living in a stupid country inhabited by a majority of stupid voters.

Have you ever thought of moving ;)

How do you feel about your little corner of Spain having voted massively to remain?

Have you thought of moving too, as you don't agree with them?

Former Lancastrian Aug 21st 2016 11:18 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12031334)
In that case you are living in a stupid country inhabited by a majority of stupid voters.

Have you ever thought of moving ;)

:lol: Now how true that is is open to interpretation. I moved in 1988 and it had nothing to do with the EU.

As a neutral UK born and bred and having no real desire to move back to the UK I can probably look at it with a different perspective.

Why was the EU formed and what was the initial purpose of the EU?
From the inception of the EU how much has it grown and why?
Why did the UK want to vote out?

Was the UK too generous to EU citizens of various countries who wanted to move to the UK compared to other countries?
Yes the idea of being able to move freely and work in certain countries is appealing to some but in reality its not achievable to all.

Is the 20 yr old unemployed Scouser living in Toxteth who cannot speak any other language and completed secondary school and has no post secondary education likely to move to Portugal, Germany or Sweden?

aries Aug 21st 2016 12:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12031318)
Because it was a stupid decision made for stupid reasons.

Why do you believe it was stupid when a number of other EU countries are also dissatisfied with the way things are run, and the doom and gloom forecast to befall us after midnight on 23rd June didn't materialise?

Of course we expected some fall-out because of the scare-mongering, but our economy hasn't collapsed, unemployment is down, and life goes on.

I think we need to wait until we've left the EU to give the revised situation a chance before we say it was stupid, or indeed the best move we've made. We joined the Common Market which was promoted as a trading group, but how many Brits would have agreed to join if it was known that we were to be integrated with more than two dozen other countries, and that whatever the bureaucrats in Brussels told us to do, we would have to meekly bow to their demands?

My English grandmother didn't even do this when she was living in Brussels during the German occupation, yet she survived, and we will as well.

jimenato Aug 21st 2016 1:04 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by aries (Post 12031396)
Why do you believe it was stupid when a number of other EU countries are also dissatisfied with the way things are run, and the doom and gloom forecast to befall us after midnight on 23rd June didn't materialise?

Of course we expected some fall-out because of the scare-mongering, but our economy hasn't collapsed, unemployment is down, and life goes on.

I think we need to wait until we've left the EU to give the revised situation a chance before we say it was stupid, or indeed the best move we've made. We joined the Common Market which was promoted as a trading group, but how many Brits would have agreed to join if it was known that we were to be integrated with more than two dozen other countries, and that whatever the bureaucrats in Brussels told us to do, we would have to meekly bow to their demands?

My English grandmother didn't even do this when she was living in Brussels during the German occupation, yet she survived, and we will as well.

That's the sort of stupid reason I was talking about.

jimenato Aug 21st 2016 1:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12031345)
How do you feel about your little corner of Spain having voted massively to remain?

Have you thought of moving too, as you don't agree with them?

:)

amideislas Aug 21st 2016 1:47 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by aries (Post 12031396)
Why do you believe it was stupid when a number of other EU countries are also dissatisfied with the way things are run, and the doom and gloom forecast to befall us after midnight on 23rd June didn't materialise?

Of course we expected some fall-out because of the scare-mongering, but our economy hasn't collapsed, unemployment is down, and life goes on.

I think we need to wait until we've left the EU to give the revised situation a chance before we say it was stupid, or indeed the best move we've made. We joined the Common Market which was promoted as a trading group, but how many Brits would have agreed to join if it was known that we were to be integrated with more than two dozen other countries, and that whatever the bureaucrats in Brussels told us to do, we would have to meekly bow to their demands?

My English grandmother didn't even do this when she was living in Brussels during the German occupation, yet she survived, and we will as well.

It's probably worth reminding you that there has been no brexit. Full stop.

The markets responded to the tangible threat of it, sold off the pound and retracted a few trillion off global markets, but in the aftermath, realised that the vote alone is not a firm indication of whether the UK will leave the EU or not. So, the selloff subsided until more measurable indications become clear.

A few days ago, Bloomberg published a report that effectively said that someone close inside the new government suggested maybe as early as April, article 50 might be invoked. Within minutes, the pound sold off again.

The real effects of "brexit" won't be seen until we actually have one. But every indication is that with every suggestion that it might actually happen, results in a selloff of the currency, British commodities, and a decline in confidence.

Back to your question, "why do you believe it's stupid?".

Well, just based on the basic facts, fundamentals, and the demonstrable reaction of the markets, there is certainly no economic upside in brexit, and political influence is proportional to economic power. Other than a natural nationalistic instinct to believe Britain will "flourish", there's simply little basis in fact which would support that notion.

Everybody loses. And that's why.

Fredbargate Aug 21st 2016 2:27 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12031344)
I could move to where you are Fred - your country got it right.:thumbup:


Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12031345)
How do you feel about your little corner of Spain having voted massively to remain?

Have you thought of moving too, as you don't agree with them?

Luckily it was a combined vote and the majority got it right :thumbsup:

Assanah Aug 21st 2016 2:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by aries (Post 12031396)
We joined the Common Market which was promoted as a trading group.

Are you aware that most negotiations of free trade agreements are about integrating regulations? Something that the EU has done quiet well. Customs are not the problem anymore in international trade but divergence of regulation. My take: the EU was well ahead of its time with a truly new and revolutionary approach to trade. Giving massive freedom and opportunity to the once that were willing to take it. Obviously the EU didn' t do a good job in explaining this. For the UK it is too late now but hopefully the EU will do a better job with the rest of the member states.


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