British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric Apr 6th 2017 2:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12223020)
The political class will indeed decide the outcome of Brexit, with many string pullers (on both sides) using the process to promote their ideologies and dogma - the voices of pragmatism and reason taking a back seat.

I'd suggest that most reasonable Leavers would not object to any transitional arrangement maintaining the status quo in terms of EU immigration, provided it enabled civilised and productive negotiations. The same people who in no way object to Free Movement per se, but are perhaps are suspicious that it's one of the drivers that will lead to closer integration and eventually a federal Europe. Hence their desire for the UK alone to decide on it's immigration policy as indeed should any country IMHO.

Of course, had Mr C had been taken more seriously...

Had Mr C been taken more seriously.... what?

He was taken seriously. They knew the referendum was going to be held. They offered up a lot. They couldn't offer any more without treaty change, which would have required a lengthy process of ratification by every single member state with each one having the power to veto the whole thing. The UK's referendum timetable alone precluded that.

Nothing to do with how seriously Cameron was taken. Far more to do with how seriously Cameron took the EU, which warned him about what was possible and what wasn't and which, with typical bluster, he ignored. That and the fact that the eurosceptic papers seized on his inability to completely halt freedom of movement, or put a numeric cap on it as though it was something that was ever realistically on the cards, which it obviously wasn't.

InVinoVeritas Apr 6th 2017 2:18 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
People like this voted Brexit - it's not all about immigration:-

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...style-new-film

And do watch the video, I missed it first time round.

amideislas Apr 6th 2017 2:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12223020)
The political class will indeed decide the outcome of Brexit, with many string pullers (on both sides) using the process to promote their ideologies and dogma - the voices of pragmatism and reason taking a back seat.

I'd suggest that most reasonable Leavers would not object to any transitional arrangement maintaining the status quo in terms of EU immigration, provided it enabled civilised and productive negotiations. The same people who in no way object to Free Movement per se, but are perhaps are suspicious that it's one of the drivers that will lead to closer integration and eventually a federal Europe. Hence their desire for the UK alone to decide on it's immigration policy as indeed should any country IMHO.

Of course, had Mr C had been taken more seriously...


I'd agree with that [unusually] rational assessment, except for one thing: Britain voted to leave, so it should do precisely that, accept that leaving means leaving, not getting some or more benefits of membership without any obligations.

There is one other little bit of reality that I believe Britain must eventually acknowledge and come to grips with (it was, after all, Britain's [Churchill's] idea - Britain even had a hand in architecting it): That virtually all of the crises the EU has encountered can be directly attributed to lack of "closer integration" and lack of central authority to deal with them. The EU simply cannot continue in its present form and effectively deal with issues such as immigration, monetary policy, security, and a breadth of other issues that simply cannot be left to member states to individually enforce, because they demonstrably can't.

Since the debt and refugee crisis exploded, much has been achieved in regards to central policymaking. And it involved some uncomfortable tradeoffs by member states, yet, things are finally looking up. It only illustrates how "further integration" is the only way forward, or else the entire project will ultimately fail. And no matter what your views on that, failure would be very bad for everyone, including post-Brexit Britain.

So, whether the EU eventually becomes a "federal" state remains to be seen, but the last thing Britain should be worried about is the eventuality of EU solving its problems and becoming a stable, successful economy - and potentially, Britain's best trading partner (if Britain doesn't manage to entirely burn its bridges in the process of Brexit).

Fredbargate Apr 6th 2017 2:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12222834)
Reality Fred, Gibraltar is not the UK.
If the UK was a dog, Gib would be the flea clinging to the last hair on the dogs tail.

I would imagine you are personally very familiar with fleas.


OK so the stench of SEWAGE from the Rio Formosa last Thursday is to become the norm?

Then again La Linea ( Spain ) has solved it's sewage problem by piping it onto Gibraltar's Western Beach.

Or the litter at the Alqueva Dam were in a short space of time I saw two tourist buses arrive to an area with no litter bins?

Maybe the profusion of DOG SHIT at the Cape St Vincent Lighthouse that the tourist reps kept avoiding is also to become the norm?

I believe the UK has already adopted a profusion of GRAFFITI similar to that in Serpa

Whilst in contrast Italica ( Spain ) was spotlessly clean.

Fredbargate Apr 6th 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12222847)
From your link:


Quote:
The delays are not unusual at this time of year and as the Easter break approaches but the delays have coincided with the Schengan Border Code which comes into effect tomorrow, April 7.
Not unusual.

Not unusual.

That's OK then but it does not ring true to me

But can you explain why there was no queue reported earlier in the week and there was certainly no queue thsi afternoon entering Gib when I arrived back?

lutonlad Apr 6th 2017 2:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12223031)
I'd agree with that [unusually] rational assessment, except for one thing: Britain voted to leave, so it should do precisely that, accept that leaving means leaving, not getting some or more benefits of membership without any obligations.

There is one other little bit of reality that I believe Britain must eventually acknowledge and come to grips with (it was, after all, Britain's [Churchill's] idea - Britain even had a hand in architecting it): That virtually all of the crises the EU has encountered can be directly attributed to lack of "closer integration" and lack of central authority to deal with them. The EU simply cannot continue in its present form and effectively deal with issues such as immigration, monetary policy, security, and a breadth of other issues that simply cannot be left to member states to individually enforce, because they demonstrably can't.

Since the debt and refugee crisis exploded, much has been achieved in regards to central policymaking. And it involved some uncomfortable tradeoffs by member states, yet, things are finally looking up. It only illustrates how "further integration" is the only way forward, or else the entire project will ultimately fail. And no matter what your views on that, failure would be very bad for everyone, including post-Brexit Britain.

So, whether the EU eventually becomes a "federal" state remains to be seen, but the last thing Britain should be worried about is the eventuality of EU solving its problems and becoming a stable, successful economy - and potentially, Britain's best trading partner (if Britain doesn't manage to entirely burn its bridges in the process of Brexit).

Not at all unusual.

iano Apr 6th 2017 2:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12223026)
And do watch the video, I missed it first time round.

Rightio. Maurice Micklewhite, the luvvie, starring in his latest role; 'I'm a middle-of-the-road politician'. :rofl:

iano Apr 6th 2017 3:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12223008)
Am I to infer that you've seen the light and you definitely won't be voting for that shower again? :sneaky:

Certainly not until they purge the party of 'The Bastards', once an irritating rump that now appears to be running the show. The spiky tail wagging the dog.

One-nation Tory, me.

DaveLovesDee Apr 6th 2017 3:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12222970)
At this stage, I honestly can't imagine anybody "winning" the 2020 election. No political party will likely hold much credibility with anyone. Most tribes will likely be angry about one thing or another.

Don't worry, the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and Sun will help voters forget the Tory lies, broken promises and u-turns over the Leave campaign and Brexit, aided but the removal of anything incriminating from the internet in the same way much of the pre-2010 Conservative stuff was deleted.

The Tories will once again be whitewashed and everything blamed on Labour/Corbyn unless blue-Labour have taken control of the party again.


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12222986)
I agree, and I would add the EU is only a dysfunctional organisation with a building in Brussels, so when anyone posts EU export figures on here we can ignore them. Or is it only when I mention EU exports to the Saudis we can ignore them?

Was anyone ignoring the data?

I thought you were trying to claim it was the EU exporting as an entity, where the data actually referred to the exports of all EU member states as a total.


Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12223025)
Had Mr C been taken more seriously.... what?

He was taken seriously. They knew the referendum was going to be held. They offered up a lot. They couldn't offer any more without treaty change, which would have required a lengthy process of ratification by every single member state with each one having the power to veto the whole thing. The UK's referendum timetable alone precluded that.

Nothing to do with how seriously Cameron was taken. Far more to do with how seriously Cameron took the EU, which warned him about what was possible and what wasn't and which, with typical bluster, he ignored. That and the fact that the eurosceptic papers seized on his inability to completely halt freedom of movement, or put a numeric cap on it as though it was something that was ever realistically on the cards, which it obviously wasn't.

And I've said much the same on a number of occassions, none of which ever seemed to make a difference. But if we don't correct the BS, it becomes believed as 'fact'. So we'll keep correcting it.


Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12223048)
That's OK then but it does not ring true to me

But can you explain why there was no queue reported earlier in the week and there was certainly no queue thsi afternoon entering Gib when I arrived back?

I can't explain any of what you ask because it wasn't reported in the paper. Maybe you should ask the border posts. Or the media.

Alternatively, you've previously referred to yourself as the Minister of Information, maybe you could ask yourself? :p

amideislas Apr 6th 2017 3:42 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12223068)
Was anyone ignoring the data?

I thought you were trying to claim it was the EU exporting as an entity, where the data actually referred to the exports of all EU member states as a total.

Dave, that's not the elephant in the room. The elephant is that any data coming from the EU is dismissible, which renders the question of whether the EU (as an entity) exports anything, completely irrelevant, because it would be dismissible either way.

Fredbargate Apr 6th 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12223068)
Alternatively, you've previously referred to yourself as the Minister of Information, maybe you could ask yourself? :p

Unfortunately that is only an Honorary title bestowed on me by EMR :rofl:

DaveLovesDee Apr 6th 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12223096)
Unfortunately that is only an Honorary title bestowed on me by EMR :rofl:

But you've still referred to yourself as such....

Fredbargate Apr 6th 2017 4:09 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12223099)
But you've still referred to yourself as such....

Saves waiting for EMR to repeat it along with all of his other repetitive crap.

DaveLovesDee Apr 6th 2017 4:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12223107)
Saves waiting for EMR to repeat it along with all of his other repetitive crap.

So it's just Dick's repetitive crap you like repeated then......

Fredbargate Apr 6th 2017 4:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Since my return over a vey quiet frontier this afternoon the situation has change.

There now appears to be a slow large pedestrian queue as well as a slow moto queue whilst there are very few cars possibly because the workers didn't bother to drive in after yesterdays delays.

However DLD in response to your earlier post quoting that delays are not unusual at this time of year those types of increase are due to tourist activities and they would now have left the Rock.
So the sufferers today are mainly Spaniards who are seeking employment in Gib which Spain is incapable of providing.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:25 am.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.