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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Sep 20th 2018, 2:36 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Try a bit longer lie-down.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:08 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Anybody who would happily see their own country perish or suffer at the hands of another country or group is, by definition, a traitor.
Would you apply that thinking to our ultra brexiters prepared to agree deals that would severely impact on the UK economy.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:21 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
The Irish border will be a problem so long as it suits the EU. Barnier has already backtracked now he's realised that no UK PM, particularly a Tory one, is going allow a border down the Irish sea.
True, but it shouldn't really be an English PM's perogative. If the Irish on both sides of the border determined they would prefer unity, I don't see any tanks rolling in this time. I think in about ten years the Catholics in NI will outnumber the Protestants, and so the situation may evolve.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:24 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Anybody who would happily see their own country perish or suffer at the hands of another country or group is, by definition, a traitor.
Who would happily see that?
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:25 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Would you apply that thinking to our ultra brexiters prepared to agree deals that would severely impact on the UK economy.
Quite - they are the traitors.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:29 pm
  #66  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
So in other words, the least democratic option possible.

In any other country on Earth, a lot of people in this thread would be branded traitors for the kind of anti-UK and pro-EU/everyone else sentiment that they come out with.
What's anti-democratic about refining the choice as full Brexit or no Brexit? It's simply rejecting the half way house and holding the Brexiters to their dream of independence. Staying with the politics of this, we have had 2 years (+ several decades) to work out an out-of-EU position, and all that we have on the table is Chequers. Chequers was cobbled together by an incompetent Tory cabinet, if it fails, then it opens a new stage. But obviously the country then needs a 'look before you leap' confirmation, given that many promises from 2016 were hollow, and if the country is still hell bent on damaging itself, so be it. It doesn't need interminable referendums (as the Brexiters like to ridicule) it needs one more. That's true democracy.

Last edited by Shard; Sep 20th 2018 at 3:32 pm.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:30 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Who would happily see that?
Shard from the sounds of it.

Basically it seems as though he wants the UK to be bullied into remaining an EU country, which sounds utterly non-sensical and counter-productive IMHO but there you go.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:30 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
True, but it shouldn't really be an English PM's perogative. If the Irish on both sides of the border determined they would prefer unity, I don't see any tanks rolling in this time. I think in about ten years the Catholics in NI will outnumber the Protestants, and so the situation may evolve.
If the Irish on both sides of the border had preferred unity in the past, it would have saved the UK a lot of 'lives' and trouble. However the UK government has an obligation to those NI protestants who will never prefer unity regardless of their number.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:36 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
But obviously the country then needs a 'look before you leap' confirmation, given that many promises from 2016 were hollow, and if the country is still hell bent on damaging itself, so be it.
I agree with you that a lot of campaign promises made in 2016 were just the usual type of political rhetoric but the truth is that the UK has already leapt. It has formally declared an intention to leave next Easter and no amount of European intimidation or talk of second referendums by self-serving billionaires and pro-EU neo-liberals is going to change that.

At this point the band aid just needs to be torn off. I very much doubt the Germans are going to let a no-deal outcome reach fruition and since they're the only ones on the continent with any real money and influence these days, the likes of Tusk will just need to shut up and cobble something together, most likely at the final hour.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:37 pm
  #70  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Shard from the sounds of it.

Basically it seems as though he wants the UK to be bullied into remaining an EU country, which sounds utterly non-sensical and counter-productive IMHO but there you go.
Have you been brainwashed by the DM DT or something? Bullied. Traitors. Such emotional arguments. As you know, the EU has its own challenges, and its own existential risks. It's perfectly rational for the group to take a firm line with UK. I mean it's we that are demanding to leave. If we want to leave, we should just leave, that's what Jacob and Boris and Fox say. Get with the program DG!
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:39 pm
  #71  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
If the Irish on both sides of the border had preferred unity in the past, it would have saved the UK a lot of 'lives' and trouble. However the UK government has an obligation to those NI protestants who will never prefer unity regardless of their number.
How about if their number are in the hundreds? Same policy?
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:39 pm
  #72  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
True, but it shouldn't really be an English PM's perogative. If the Irish on both sides of the border determined they would prefer unity, I don't see any tanks rolling in this time. I think in about ten years the Catholics in NI will outnumber the Protestants, and so the situation may evolve.
At least you admit that it's all about anti-Monarchy and religious bullshit and has very little to do with sovereignty or political freedom I suppose.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:43 pm
  #73  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Have you been brainwashed by the DM DT or something? Bullied. Traitors. Such emotional arguments. As you know, the EU has its own challenges, and its own existential risks. It's perfectly rational for the group to take a firm line with UK. I mean it's we that are demanding to leave. If we want to leave, we should just leave, that's what Jacob and Boris and Fox say. Get with the program DG!
The EU is a bully when it doesn't count and a coward when it does. Unfortunately much of the British media have played into their hands though. The truth is that if Chequers ends up forcing May out of office then the consequences for them would be serious, just as they would for the UK. Same thing with a no-deal result really.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:45 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Easy to extend A50 to fit in a second referendum, if the will of the people demands one. Main problem (besides an incompetent PM backstopped by a hard Brexit replacement) is that JC is hopeless on this issue. If somehow Kier Starmer could gain control of Labour (unlikely) rationality would return.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 3:46 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
The EU is a bully when it doesn't count and a coward when it does. Unfortunately much of the British media have played into their hands though. The truth is that if Chequers ends up forcing May out of office then the consequences for them would be serious, just as they would for the UK. Same thing with a no-deal result really.
I'd like her out and a second referendum.
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