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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Sep 24th 2018, 6:36 pm
  #211  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
No, I meant Leave under a) Canada type deal, b) No Deal.
I see what you mean.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 6:46 pm
  #212  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
A second referendum does seem problematic for us Remainers. If Leave (under a defined method) won, it would at least be accepted, and give Leave a confirmed mandate. But if Remain were to squeak past this time, Brxiters would not accept it; only a resounding Remain win would placate the masses. I think that's why MP's on both sides are being non-commital on a referendum as they only want to support if there is an enormous groundswell for it.
Although I see what you’re saying, a second vote is not problematic from my point of view. The stakes are just too high in trying to placate everyone. Democracy was always based on the desires of the majority, realizing not everyone will always be pleased by the results. This vote must be had to confirm what’s probably one of the most momentous decisions for the UK in this and possibly the last century.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 6:59 pm
  #213  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

(5 mins old)
Well all I can say is if anyone asks for a defintion of a Banana Republic, this is it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8553051.html
Now tell me it's all about taking back control.......
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:15 pm
  #214  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post


Although I see what you’re saying, a second vote is not problematic from my point of view. The stakes are just too high in trying to placate everyone. Democracy was always based on the desires of the majority, realizing not everyone will always be pleased by the results. This vote must be had to confirm what’s probably one of the most momentous decisions for the UK in this and possibly the last century.
Best of how many do you think? And what should the questions be? How about the margin?

A reminder of the referendum (which Remainers didn't moan about at the time):
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain a member of the European Union?
Leave the European Union?


The majority voted for the latter, which IMO gave the government a clear mandate to carry out the peoples decision.
If this is overturned, the UK would be acting no better than a corrupt third rate banana republic.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:27 pm
  #215  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
(5 mins old)
Well all I can say is if anyone asks for a defintion of a Banana Republic, this is it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8553051.html
Now tell me it's all about taking back control.......
This is the irony, some Brxiters assume that by stripping out a further layer of government (the EU) there will be less beauracracy. Maybe in Whitehall, but for citizens and businesses, there will be a mountain of red tape to contend with anytime we want to do something in or with Europe. Brexit is a vote for more hassel.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:37 pm
  #216  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Stillgame View Post
Best of how many do you think? And what should the questions be? How about the margin?

A reminder of the referendum (which Remainers didn't moan about at the time):
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain a member of the European Union?
Leave the European Union?


The majority voted for the latter, which IMO gave the government a clear mandate to carry out the peoples decision.
If this is overturned, the UK would be acting no better than a corrupt third rate banana republic.
If I produced a product that is labelled "solves all marital problems", yet inside, claims that "divorce is the only way to make your marriage work, and in the divorce proceedings, tell your lawyer to demand all common property yet still maintain sexual rights with divorced spouse", wouldn't you expect some scepticism, or downright claims of fraud about that?

Brexit was sold as a remedy to whatever ails you, yet as later discovered, it only makes Britain sicker. That's fraud. Except you voted for it, so, let's go ahead with it anyway. That's just being a sucker.

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 24th 2018 at 7:50 pm.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:42 pm
  #217  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Stillgame View Post
Best of how many do you think? And what should the questions be? How about the margin?

A reminder of the referendum (which Remainers didn't moan about at the time):
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain a member of the European Union?
Leave the European Union?


The majority voted for the latter, which IMO gave the government a clear mandate to carry out the peoples decision.
If this is overturned, the UK would be acting no better than a corrupt third rate banana republic.
Here's a thought experiment for you: next month all the car companies announce they are moving production to the Continent, half the bank's say they will move staff too, sterling plummets by a further 20%, service in the NHS is decimated by staffing problems, basically a terrible situation, brought on by Brexit.

In such a scenario would you still be pushing the government to implement a decision made two years ago?

Second thought experiment: mass rallies start occurring all over Britain, it appears that 90% of the population want to remain in Europe. Would you still want to implement Brexit?

I'll help you out, referendum style:

NO, circumstances have changed, so I would reconsider Brexit in a second referendum.

YES, a democratic decision on Brexit can only be taken once in a lifetime, I cannot process new information and do not care how others in the country are affected.

Your choice, Yes or No?

Last edited by Shard; Sep 24th 2018 at 7:45 pm.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:50 pm
  #218  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Good bit of side stepping going on here.

I was merely pointing out that Remainers didn't complain about the format of the referendum at the time.

And as they're crying fowl now, what question/s would Remainers like to see on a future ref should they get their way?

Simple really. But if you need any pointers, just ask Labour.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:52 pm
  #219  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Look, if that's how it is, then leave. That means leave. It doesn't mean continuing to live in the house and use the facilities. It means leave. Is there a problem? Or isn't the council treating you with the "respect" you deserve as a benefit sponger?
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:56 pm
  #220  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
(5 mins old)
Well all I can say is if anyone asks for a defintion of a Banana Republic, this is it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8553051.html
Now tell me it's all about taking back control.......
It was what they voted for though ... ending freedom of movement

.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 7:57 pm
  #221  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Stillgame View Post
Good bit of side stepping going on here.

I was merely pointing out that Remainers didn't complain about the format of the referendum at the time.

And as they're crying fowl now, what question/s would Remainers like to see on a future ref should they get their way?

Simple really. But if you need any pointers, just ask Labour.
...foul...
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 8:01 pm
  #222  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Look, if that's how it is, then leave. That means leave. It doesn't mean continuing to live in the house and use the facilities. It means leave. Is there a problem? Or isn't the council treating you with the "respect" you deserve as a benefit sponger?
This is getting tiresome.
One last shot:

Why didn't Remainers complain about the format of the referendum at the time?

What question/s would Remainers like to see on a future ref should they get their way?

Come on. Even Corbyn makes an effort to answer questions.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 8:12 pm
  #223  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Stillgame View Post
This is getting tiresome.
One last shot:

Why didn't Remainers complain about the format of the referendum at the time?

What question/s would Remainers like to see on a future ref should they get their way?

Come on. Even Corbyn makes an effort to answer questions.
i think they did object. The remain mantra had all kinds of elements of "it's far more complicated than that". But naturally, that was just "project fear" back then.

Now we know the fraud. But the consequences don't matter. They voted for or against this uninformed binary fraud, a narrow margin voted in favour of it, so live with it, you antidemocratic, nonsensical elitist communist lefty twits (despite all evidence to the contrary -again).

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 24th 2018 at 8:20 pm.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 8:15 pm
  #224  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
...foul...
Many thanks for the correction. Much appreciated.
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Old Sep 24th 2018, 8:23 pm
  #225  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
i think they did object. The remain mantra had all kinds of elements of "it's far more complicated than that". But naturally, that was just "project fear" back then.

Now we know the fraud. But the consequences don't matter. They voted for or against this uninformed binary fraud, a narrow margin voted in favour of it, so live with it, you antidemocratic, nonsensical elitist communist lefty twits (despite all evidence to the contrary).
On the first point, nice try but I don't think any side was particularly critical of the format of the referendum.

As for What question/s would Remainers like to see on a future referendum should they get their way?
I'll assume you haven't a clue.
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