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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Oct 22nd 2018, 10:11 am
  #1681  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I'm not so sure that it's that although it's fair to say that as an island nation with a long history, Britain is somewhat unique and you see a lot of parallels with somewhere like Japan which sits similarly uncomfortably in East Asia.

I think it's more that the UK, or at least much of the population, sees itself as being culturally closer to our allies in North America or Australasia than we are to the Europeans. Whether or not that's the right or wrong stance would depend on your views on the EU I suppose however I think it's fair to say that we certainly can't depend upon the Europeans for anything during a time of need.
Completely misinformed as usual.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 10:15 am
  #1682  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Completely misinformed as usual.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 10:27 am
  #1683  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Completely misinformed as usual.
Care to backup that accusation? When has Europe ever been there for the British during a time of need? When it's come to the crunch, we've always saved their arse, never the other way around.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 10:39 am
  #1684  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by orly View Post
They did. In the referendum. Which they got 48% of the votes in.
Which even Farage said wouldn't settle the matter had Remain won.

Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win
The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business'​​​​​​
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Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Care to backup that accusation? When has Europe ever been there for the British during a time of need? When it's come to the crunch, we've always saved their arse, never the other way around.
If you're referring to WW2, the Americans helped us help other European countries back from the Nazis. Prior to that, the UK was barely holding its own and was mostly in the defensive.

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:42 am.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 10:45 am
  #1685  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Care to backup that accusation? When has Europe ever been there for the British during a time of need? When it's come to the crunch, we've always saved their arse, never the other way around.
For a young person you do like living in the past. How about the past 50 years where it has bought our goods and services and helped us transform from a broken economy into a successful one. I can only guess that you were raised by a cabal of Europhobic nationalists that revel in the "glories" of long settled wars and British exceptionalism. Why are you so bitter about Europe? It's provided a sunny or cultured home for many older Brits, some countries offers free university education for young Brits, it's citizens have staffed our schools, care homes, surgeries and coffee shops. It's one thing to prefer an independent Britain, quite another to slag off Europe and the EU as you continually do. If I didn't read your odd post relating to work matters I would honestly think you were twelve years old, such is the nonsense you espouse.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 10:49 am
  #1686  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
For a young person you do like living in the past. How about the past 50 years where it has bought our goods and services and helped us transform from a broken economy into a successful one. I can only guess that you were raised by a cabal of Europhobic nationalists that revel in the "glories" of long settled wars and British exceptionalism. Why are you so bitter about Europe? It's provided a sunny or cultured home for many older Brits, some countries offers free university education for young Brits, it's citizens have staffed our schools, care homes, surgeries and coffee shops. It's one thing to prefer an independent Britain, quite another to slag off Europe and the EU as you continually do. If I didn't read your odd post relating to work matters I would honestly think you were twelve years old, such is the nonsense you espouse.
Because I don't agree with anything that you just said, that's why.

Incidentally please don't blame my parents. My views are my own and I don't recall ever even discussing this issue with my parents. My brother is a Conservative Remainer but he and I agree to disagree so far as Brexit is concerned.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 10:55 am
  #1687  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Which even Farage said wouldn't settle the matter had Remain won.



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If you're referring to WW2, the Americans helped us help other European countries back from the Nazis. Prior to that, the UK was barely holding its own and was mostly in the defensive.
Yes, the Americans helped us fight against an invading army of other Europeans. If that doesn't prove my point then I'm not sure what would really.

The only country in Europe that we feel close to and truly trust is Ireland and that is coincidentally why Ireland is the only country with which we share a common security policy and open border.

It wasn't too long ago that the media reported the UK was still spying on the French and the Germans. It caused some embarrassment as I recall. Even in the recent issues with Russia, it has been the Americans and the Canadians who have had our back, not the Europeans.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:05 am
  #1688  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Because I don't agree with anything that you just said, that's why.

Incidentally please don't blame my parents. My views are my own and I don't recall ever even discussing this issue with my parents. My brother is a Conservative Remainer but he and I agree to disagree so far as Brexit is concerned.
I'm not specifically blaming your parents, more the people around you that seem to have imbued you with a massive disdain for Europe. You say you don't read the press so that provides an alibi for the Daily Mail and other such propoganda. Have spent much time in Europe? Ever lived there? Had any European friends? When old people slag off Europe their ignorance can be dismissed as something formed in a different time, and different circumstances. What's curious is someone young that has such attitudes for no apparent reason. Which is why I contend you are very misinformed.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:07 am
  #1689  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Yes, the Americans helped us fight against an invading army of other Europeans. If that doesn't prove my point then I'm not sure what would really.

.
Apologies. I said you sounded 12 years old, actually it's 9. Absolute drivel.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:08 am
  #1690  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I'm not specifically blaming your parents, more the people around you that seem to have imbued you with a massive disdain for Europe. You say you don't read the press so that provides an alibi for the Daily Mail and other such propoganda. Have spent much time in Europe? Ever lived there? Had any European friends? When old people slag off Europe their ignorance can be dismissed as something formed in a different time, and different circumstances. What's curious is someone young that has such attitudes for no apparent reason. Which is why I contend you are very misinformed.
I have no problem with European people. It is free movement that I object to. I'm not crazy about the EU establishment either however if the UK was no longer an EU member then that would no longer be my concern.

In answer to your question I lived in Germany when I was very young and have known many European people over the years through work and my social life but with perhaps a couple of exceptions, they've always been acquaintances rather than friends.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:09 am
  #1691  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Apologies. I said you sounded 12 years old, actually it's 9. Absolute drivel.
We were fighting against Germany and Italy FFS.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:14 am
  #1692  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
We were fighting against Germany and Italy FFS.
Nazis. Not the same as Europeans. No wonder your thinking is so confused. You are implying the whole is that of the subset.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:19 am
  #1693  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Nazis. Not the same as Europeans. No wonder your thinking is so confused. You are implying the whole is that of the subset.
Oh wow. There is no way to reply to that unfortunately. Well done to Germany for glossing over its history though. It's done a better job of it than Britain ever could.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:21 am
  #1694  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Yes, the Americans helped us fight against an invading army of other Europeans. If that doesn't prove my point then I'm not sure what would really.
Almost all soldiers on the Nazi side were German or Italian conscripts, other nationalities (especially Russian) were forced to fight on the German side when captured.

Europeans willingly came to the UK to fight the Nazis.

The only country in Europe that we feel close to and truly trust is Ireland and that is coincidentally why Ireland is the only country with which we share a common security policy and open border.
Ireland is the only country we share a land border with, so they're the only country we can share an open border with. But UK passports still get checked every time by immigration at Dublin Airport every time i land there.

It wasn't too long ago that the media reported the UK was still spying on the French and the Germans. It caused some embarrassment as I recall. Even in the recent issues with Russia, it has been the Americans and the Canadians who have had our back, not the Europeans.
Everyone spies on everyone else, including the US on UK nationals (with the government's knowledge). The UK merely got caught doing it.

The US has almost always made use of HumInt (Human Intelligence) sources alongside other types. Especially to gain the upper hand on trade negotiations.
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Old Oct 22nd 2018, 11:26 am
  #1695  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Ireland is the only country we share a land border with, so they're the only country we can share an open border with. But UK passports still get checked every time by immigration at Dublin Airport every time i land there.
Flying from the UK? Because AFAIK they shouldn't do and that's the whole point of the CTA. They consider those flights internal like Russian airports do with flights from Belarus etc.
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