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Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Old Jun 11th 2020, 12:10 am
  #76  
 
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
What makes you think it wasn't?

Journalist calling and comparing Meghan's child to the "old" racist slur, monkey. Certainly no racist intent there. Journalist calling a successful Meghan in her own right a trailer trash. Constant death threats directed toward Meghan and her child which has been confirmed by the Palace. Having said that I can certainly see why the public would want to complain about funding Archie's security cost. And those are just the obvious dim witted individuals that didn't feel the need to cloak their true intent. Most racist prefer to attack behind the shield of covert excuses. That's what cowards do in these situations. And when caught there seem to be a thing called in the UK as giving the racist a pass! That is why racism continues to thrive.

My favorite pass given to racist is when people refer to clear acts of racism as "accidental" racism as if that makes racism more acceptable. I've spoken to people of color in the UK and they without any question find it easier to fight racism in America compared to the UK. And the reason for that is because America's racist will at least own they're racism while most in the UK try to cloak it or sweep it under the rug. Racism is a public health issue meaning the racist is mentally and emotionally ill. You can't help a drunk or drug addict get better unless they admit there is a problem.
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Do you or did you live in the US. I don't think I know your expat story.

The reason I ask is the " owning racism " statement.

A story: My very educated step father in law always acted the same around the guys that worked with him. He was the same with all the little league kids as well whether they were black, white or hispanic. One day my teenage brother in law had invited friends around for a swim in their pool. Educated FIL would not allow the black friend in the house or the pool. End of story.
( almost the end of our relationship with them, we lasted another week or two!)

He would deny being racist. Oh heck, yeah he worked with black guys.
No owning racism there. It is in lots of ways how the good ole boys and gals in the south operate.
I call it racism. I also call it cruel, nasty and other words I won't write because they are not worth my effort.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 12:30 am
  #77  
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by Sugarmooma View Post
Do you or did you live in the US. I don't think I know your expat story.

The reason I ask is the " owning racism " statement.

A story: My very educated step father in law always acted the same around the guys that worked with him. He was the same with all the little league kids as well whether they were black, white or hispanic. One day my teenage brother in law had invited friends around for a swim in their pool. Educated FIL would not allow the black friend in the house or the pool. End of story.
( almost the end of our relationship with them, we lasted another week or two!)

He would deny being racist. Oh heck, yeah he worked with black guys.
No owning racism there. It is in lots of ways how the good ole boys and gals in the south operate.
I call it racism. I also call it cruel, nasty and other words I won't write because they are not worth my effort.
I believe UK Winds is an American living in the US, and has never lived in the UK.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 12:30 am
  #78  
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
There you go again, with your sweeping statements without any hard evidence to back them up. I realise that you like to think the US is better in most ways than any other nation, but to say that America owns its racism while 'most' in the UK don't is a patently absurd statement. Particularly right now.
No! I never said America was a better country. I know not to make that false claim. I'm saying Americans tend to show how they feel without any apology or qualms when it come to fighting social ills or creating social ills. A racist in America is braver. It's simply easier to fight a social condition that is out in the open. A Nigel Farage by American standards is a coward because he is afraid to say exactly what his obvious thinking is. He tries to dress it up in a better more acceptable package.

Why particularly now? Because Americans are protesting? America was born from protest and it's encouraged as a means to solve problems. It's even in our Constitution the right to protest. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and that definitely applies to problem solving. Btw, minorities in the UK are often shamed by the majority for fighting racial issues. A person bringing light to racism in the UK is often called a racist for simply standing up. This is not me saying this. Talk to minorities in the UK and listen to their voices.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 12:42 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by Sugarmooma View Post
Do you or did you live in the US. I don't think I know your expat story.

The reason I ask is the " owning racism " statement.

A story: My very educated step father in law always acted the same around the guys that worked with him. He was the same with all the little league kids as well whether they were black, white or hispanic. One day my teenage brother in law had invited friends around for a swim in their pool. Educated FIL would not allow the black friend in the house or the pool. End of story.
( almost the end of our relationship with them, we lasted another week or two!)

He would deny being racist. Oh heck, yeah he worked with black guys.
No owning racism there. It is in lots of ways how the good ole boys and gals in the south operate.
I call it racism. I also call it cruel, nasty and other words I won't write because they are not worth my effort.

Perfect example! You never have to ask a person what or how they feel about a certain social position because often their actions will explain it all for those listening and paying attention. I've had multiple friends that just happen to be Hispanic American and African American and they usually always say it's preferable to work around or encounter a racist that is out in the open. Quick easy and saves time for obvious reasons. Btw, I'm American married to a Brit.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 12:46 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
No! I never said America was a better country. I know not to make that false claim. I'm saying Americans tend to show how they feel without any apology or qualms when it come to fighting social ills or creating social ills. A racist in America is braver. It's simply easier to fight a social condition that is out in the open. A Nigel Farage by American standards is a coward because he is afraid to say exactly what his obvious thinking is. He tries to dress it up in a better more acceptable package.

Why particularly now? Because Americans are protesting? America was born from protest and it's encouraged as a means to solve problems. It's even in our Constitution the right to protest. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and that definitely applies to problem solving. Btw, minorities in the UK are often shamed by the majority for fighting racial issues. A person bringing light to racism in the UK is often called a racist for simply standing up. This is not me saying this. Talk to minorities in the UK and listen to their voices.
With all due respect, I think you should study the history of revolt and protest in the UK, going back to well before Europeans had even "discovered" the American continent (except possibly for a few stray vikings). If you think the US was born of protest, have a look and see how the separate and then united kingdoms were formed and reformed across centuries. Looked at the military, political, and popular uprisings across the centuries. You might also remember that the people who rebelled in the colonies were actually largely British, of course.

The US, with its sheer size and the weight of its ruling class can absorb massive demonstrations and protests and then carry on largely as before. Look at the giant protests against the Gulf war. Huge numbers in the streets, unseen since the 60s, and then - nothing. No change. It generally doesn't need to suppress them.I hope this doesn't happen again this time.

I think you may be misinterpreting the different styles between the US and the UK when it comes to people expressing themselves. In racist expression, as in other matters, the British can be extremely clear - but they way they do it is different. It's very upfront to those who are part of the culture. Nobody was at all confused about what Farage was talking about. I don't think. It's the same phenomenon, only in nicer circumstances, when people accuse the British of being unfriendly. We aren't, of course. We just express it differently. These are just cultural differences.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 2:17 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
With all due respect, I think you should study the history of revolt and protest in the UK, going back to well before Europeans had even "discovered" the American continent (except possibly for a few stray vikings). If you think the US was born of protest, have a look and see how the separate and then united kingdoms were formed and reformed across centuries. Looked at the military, political, and popular uprisings across the centuries. You might also remember that the people who rebelled in the colonies were actually largely British, of course.

The US, with its sheer size and the weight of its ruling class can absorb massive demonstrations and protests and then carry on largely as before. Look at the giant protests against the Gulf war. Huge numbers in the streets, unseen since the 60s, and then - nothing. No change. It generally doesn't need to suppress them.I hope this doesn't happen again this time.

I think you may be misinterpreting the different styles between the US and the UK when it comes to people expressing themselves. In racist expression, as in other matters, the British can be extremely clear - but they way they do it is different. It's very upfront to those who are part of the culture. Nobody was at all confused about what Farage was talking about. I don't think. It's the same phenomenon, only in nicer circumstances, when people accuse the British of being unfriendly. We aren't, of course. We just express it differently. These are just cultural differences.
I can appreciate what you're saying about culture and differing ways of communication. And in some ways you're making my point about how certain forms of speak can be cleaned up less aggressive with a more open interpretation in order to not offend and still be direct. Which is definitely a point I was making about old Farage.

Couldn't agree with you more about the importance of knowing the history of one's country and those other influences that have helped to shape who we are and the world. And I'm sure you and many of us have taken all those classes at University that gave contextual comprehension to how key events took place that continue to influence us now. But I like to remind people that America was not discovered it was already inhabited by Native Americans. Its kind of a loose term that has taken on a misleading meaning.

I also agree that cultural differences in every country do play a role in how its society resolves social ills and the type of solutions that are possible in that environment. I think a great many people are subconsciously bias and especially in cultures where maintaining certain traditions are considered a top priority. Those sentiments were profound during the whole Brexit decision in leaving the European Union. Obviously there were financial factors as well but many Brits resented the idea other outside forces was responsible for a rapid change to British society. I'm not saying everyone in the UK or most Brits were of this mindset but that way of thinking was loud and makes itself known. I've seen Asian and Blacks complain about racism in the UK but they usually always feel a need to qualify their statements for fear of being labeled an extremist simply for saying the truth. Why is that?

I've heard people accuse Diane Abbott of fanning the flames of racism because she was on record asking all marginalized Brits to take responsibility and get more involved in collective power sharing. The very thing which is happening with the protest in America about police brutality. People coming together from all stripes for a greater good. I'm not saying all Ms Abbott's endeavors are positive or acceptable but promoting political access imo is a sound approach to improving any country. The UK is a wonderful country and when people point out things that need improvement that doesn't take away from that fact.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 2:50 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
Couldn't agree with you more about the importance of knowing the history of one's country and those other influences that have helped to shape who we are and the world. And I'm sure you and many of us have taken all those classes at University that gave contextual comprehension to how key events took place that continue to influence us now. But I like to remind people that America was not discovered it was already inhabited by Native Americans. Its kind of a loose term that has taken on a misleading meaning.


There is now debate about that as evidenced in this article.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...-lived/537942/
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 7:17 am
  #83  
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
What makes you think it wasn't?

Journalist calling and comparing Meghan's child to the "old" racist slur, monkey. Certainly no racist intent there. Journalist calling a successful Meghan in her own right a trailer trash.
All of that has already been covered here.

In addition to that, when Mather (the Journalist) said that, she didn't mean trailer trash in any racist sense (British people don't in general associate that term with people of colour) she meant it in the British sense of somewhat lower class - and she said it because of Meghan's somewhat dysfunctional (largely white) family.

I have to accept that you as an American would understandably misinterpret that particularly British view.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
Constant death threats directed toward Meghan and her child which has been confirmed by the Palace.
And that has been dealt with here.
Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
Having said that I can certainly see why the public would want to complain about funding Archie's security cost. And those are just the obvious dim witted individuals that didn't feel the need to cloak their true intent. Most racist prefer to attack behind the shield of covert excuses. That's what cowards do in these situations. And when caught there seem to be a thing called in the UK as giving the racist a pass! That is why racism continues to thrive.

My favorite pass given to racist is when people refer to clear acts of racism as "accidental" racism as if that makes racism more acceptable. I've spoken to people of color in the UK and they without any question find it easier to fight racism in America compared to the UK. And the reason for that is because America's racist will at least own they're racism while most in the UK try to cloak it or sweep it under the rug.
Here your argument seems to be that Americans are overtly racist and that's somehow better than the British who are secretly racist. You should consider the possibility the Americans are simply more racist than the British.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
Racism is a public health issue meaning the racist is mentally and emotionally ill. You can't help a drunk or drug addict get better unless they admit there is a problem.
Danny Baker BBC broadcaster compares royal baby to a chimpanzee in a tweet
Good thing that America's mental health care system is so superior to the UK's then, eh?



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Old Jun 11th 2020, 8:18 am
  #84  
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

What is the definition of 'racism' ? Yesterday I read and posted on a different part of the Forum (foolishly having had previous experience) and having been directed by a poster on TIO look up a post regarding corona virus. And I receive abuse there for even pointing out favourable aspects of my other country on this matter (another poster similar).

"Vast majority of Indians shit in holes" was a post there!!!!!!!!
Is 'countryism'----racism?

So----I blame myself for reading and replying to posts there. Isn't this what 'coloured' (hate that reference )-- people do? They avoid people and situations that will bring upset!!
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 8:29 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
What is the definition of 'racism' ? Yesterday I read and posted on a different part of the Forum (foolishly having had previous experience) and having been directed by a poster on TIO look up a post regarding corona virus. And I receive abuse there for even pointing out favourable aspects of my other country on this matter (another poster similar).

"Vast majority of Indians shit in holes" was a post there!!!!!!!!
Is 'countryism'----racism?

So----I blame myself for reading and replying to posts there. Isn't this what 'coloured' (hate that reference )-- people do? They avoid people and situations that will bring upset!!
Well obviously not. Meghan has fled the UK to America where apparently people are much more overtly racist.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 9:18 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Well obviously not. Meghan has fled the UK to America where apparently people are much more overtly racist.
Meghan is just one individual in a unique situation.

(I thought this thread was about racism in general!)
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 11:25 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
There is now debate about that as evidenced in this article.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...-lived/537942/
How ,amu Greeks are solid descendents of te Ancients? Angles and Saxons vs Britons, if you want to play this game where does it stop, where does it start.

I forget the [percentage but of you trace your ancestors back to Charlemagne a very high percentage of Europeans are related.
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Old Jun 11th 2020, 12:02 pm
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
How ,amu Greeks are solid descendents of te Ancients? Angles and Saxons vs Britons, if you want to play this game where does it stop, where does it start.

I forget the [percentage but of you trace your ancestors back to Charlemagne a very high percentage of Europeans are related.
Thats the point where does it stop and how far do we go back. The human race is to blame for the current situation that many countries find themselves in. The animals didn't cause these problems but it wouldn't surprise me if a war by humans was fought over one? Now awaiting someone telling me it isn't the fault of human beings but the fish in the sea had a large part to play.
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Old Jun 12th 2020, 3:34 am
  #89  
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
What is the definition of 'racism' ? !
Well it now seems to have become something to do with the colour hue of one's skin or choice of religion whereas , in fact, it has a far wider all encompassing reach than that.

Perhaps people should simply use the word prejudice. Less exotically exclusive/inclusive targetting sounding and far more how many many people are towards others not of their own group. They have prejudices.
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Old Jun 12th 2020, 4:13 am
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Default Re: Off Topic posts discussing Racism moved from H&M Stepping Back Thread

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Well it now seems to have become something to do with the colour hue of one's skin or choice of religion whereas , in fact, it has a far wider all encompassing reach than that.

Perhaps people should simply use the word prejudice. Less exotically exclusive/inclusive targetting sounding and far more how many many people are towards others not of their own group. They have prejudices.
You just described an awful lot of the postings here.
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