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Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

Old Mar 21st 2020, 1:36 am
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Default Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

What really annoys me about this is that it could have been largely avoided. Over the last couple of decades, developed countries, particularly those in Europe and East Asia, have seen a huge increase in Chinese tourism. This has largely been caused by an economic boom in China compared with struggling economies in the eurozone and places like Korea, Hong Kong and Japan.

It's all well and good for the Japanese to roll out the red carpet for tour groups from the Chinese mainland but I think a lot of what we're seeing is now a knock on effect from that. It's no coincidence that the virus first started to show up outside of China in Korea and Japan and because western countries generally have no visa restrictions for North East Asian nationalities, chances of the virus spreading westward in a major way were amplified.

I really hope that if all this ends then there will be a massive review and complete curb on tourist visas for Chinese citizens. If there isn't then we should really start reviewing our agreements with the likes of Japan, Korea, Singapore and possibly Europe. People are now dying, kids are being deprived of an education and social interaction and the world economy is in turmoil and partly because the greed of many tourist sectors has left us entirely at the mercy of China's mob-like government.

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Old Mar 21st 2020, 1:53 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I agree completely that it could have been avoided but disagree fundamentally with any curb on tourist visas for Chinese Citizens.

The problem was that Western governments fundamentally under-diagnosed the problem, and then treated this as a political and economic crisis rather than a public health one. We all knew what steps had to be taken, they were in the news weeks before anything happened, but governments were so afraid of short-term economic hits and media criticism that they resisted.

You have to put in the travel ban before the virus spreads, not after!

Now we are going to spend years paying a whole lot more for virus clean-up, then what would have costed in the short-term had government just accepted the advice and done what it needed to do in the first place.

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Old Mar 21st 2020, 4:26 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

"Meanwhile, young Australians aren’t getting the message on the importance of isolating and experts warn it could result in deaths." - The Australian

Um, is this because the Government keeps telling them that they need to be in school and that schools will remain open because it's such a low-risk environment?
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 8:49 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
I agree completely that it could have been avoided but disagree fundamentally with any curb on tourist visas for Chinese Citizens.

The problem was that Western governments fundamentally under-diagnosed the problem, and then treated this as a political and economic crisis rather than a public health one. We all knew what steps had to be taken, they were in the news weeks before anything happened, but governments were so afraid of short-term economic hits and media criticism that they resisted.

You have to put in the travel ban before the virus spreads, not after!

Now we are going to spend years paying a whole lot more for virus clean-up, then what would have costed in the short-term had government just accepted the advice and done what it needed to do in the first place.
Then I'm going to politely agree to disagree with you. There is literally no justification for the way Japanese and European tourism has been so heavily pushed towards the Chinese middle class over the last two decades other than profit potential. I've personally witnessed a transformation in the Japanese retail sector with Chinese signage, mandarin speaking staff and tax free deals in pretty much every department store, fashion, cosmetics and electronics chain and hordes of Chinese tour groups buying up any old shit. Meanwhile most Japanese watch those same tourists behaving with no cultural sensitivity or decency and find their presence generally objectionable.

You can argue the cultural and social benefits of mainland Chinese tourism if you like but I think people need to remember that just because the Chinese have a lot of money to throw around these days, doesn't mean they are a normal or developed country. You're still dealing with a heavily corrupt and mob-like dictatorship who knew all about this illness months ago but actively took measures to cover it up and silence anybody who was discussing it.

I completely agree that Western governments didn't respond quickly enough however should we be entirely reliant on intelligence services to discover these things so that we can take proactive measures ahead of time or would it just be easier and safer in the long run to cease any tourist visa options in the developed world for Chinese citizens indefinitely until their government finally gets its act together and starts acting with some responsibility.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Mar 21st 2020 at 9:01 am.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 11:02 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

This pandemic was unexpected by everyone. I don't really blame any country for it, nor their slow responses. Luckily now, most are taking it seriously.

But I have zero tolerance for those politicians more concerned with their popularity ratings than good governance. Government is supposed to be about serving the population, not self servitude.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Why don't you just suggest a law that nobody be allowed to leave their own village?
You seem to object to the movement of anyone (apert from you) and your answer is "Stop them coming!"
Maybe, just once, putting yourself in the shoes of those moving might help - but this would suggest you develop empathy.......
I'm not talking about immigrants. Usually immigrants and long term residents are subjected to strict health checks ahead of time and numbers are controlled. I'm talking about tourist visas for Chinese nationals. Many countries including a lot of EU nations unfortunately don't restrict them heavily enough because they want the tourist revenue. It's that greed that has disrupted our lives and put everyone at so much risk.

Shit this has been happening in China for years but was heavily contained since there the flow of people in and out of the country was highly restricted. It's no coincidence that we suddenly started to see a lot of potential pandemics emerge since the Chinese economy really started to open up and obviously the end result has been this. I only hope governments of the developed world have the sense to realise this and recommence heavily restricting Chinese tourism in the future. No amount of high end fashion sales and hotel bookings is worth this.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 1:29 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
This pandemic was unexpected by everyone. I don't really blame any country for it, nor their slow responses. Luckily now, most are taking it seriously.
You're wrong. The Chinese are responsible, supported by those governments that have encouraged tourism from China across their borders.

The best thing that Western governments could have done to protect their populations from this would have been to never permit Chinese tourism in the first place.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 1:36 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Why are you assuming that Chinese tourists started this?

The outbreak in Iran was caused by a solitary Iranian merchant who had gone to China on business, and came back with it. The Iranian Government then lied about it and denied anything was wrong as it silently spread, until the thing exploded and they couldn't hide it anymore.

Wasn't the first German outbreak caused by a German who had a business meeting in Asia? Was that even China? I'm thinking it was Singapore but could be wrong and I'm not going to look it up.

One of the first major Italian clusters was caused by an Italian who came back.

Most of the other outbreaks started from non-Chinese. The Australia and US travel bans on the Chinese were well in place by the time outbreaks started there. The American one likely started from European tourists.

Governments have certainly seen it coming, plain as most of us have, and only the most naive believed the figures coming from the Chinese Communist Party. Western governments were too slow to put in the necessary measures, even now when we know exactly what is going to happen. That is where I put the blame.

Last edited by carcajou; Mar 21st 2020 at 1:38 pm.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 1:41 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Why are you assuming that Chinese tourists started this?

The outbreak in Iran was caused by a solitary Iranian merchant who had gone to China on business, and came back with it.

Wasn't the first German outbreak caused by a German who had a business meeting in Asia?

One of the first major Italian clusters was caused by an Italian who came back.

Most of the other outbreaks started from non-Chinese. The Australia and US travel bans on the Chinese were well in place by the time outbreaks started there. The American one likely started from European tourists.

Governments have certainly seen it coming, plain as most of us have, and only the most naive believed the figures coming from the Chinese Communist Party. Western governments were too slow to put in the necessary measures, even now when we know exactly what is going to happen. That is where I put the blame.
No, I'm saying that the flow of people between China and the outside world caused this and that flow of people was reaching record volumes prior to all of this emerging a couple of months ago. The root cause was the Chinese and the Chinese are to blame. For as long as you have a country where people are not only importing and storing wild animals with reckless abandon and eating shit that they find in the jungle but also selling those things to others, supported by corrupt government officials and gang activity, the people of that country should not be encouraged to travel into the wider world for tourist purposes as they have been.

You can blame western governments as much as you like but you're wrong. This was caused by China and got out of hand in the way that it has because the Chinese government actively hid it from the public and sought to punish those medical professionals who were sharing information on it early on. All of this could have been avoided if it wasn't for the ****ing Chinese and the way in which most developed nations now kowtow to them.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 2:13 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Usual suspects trying to turn everything into a political argument. Going forward off topic political posts will be deleted, not moved.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 2:52 pm
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Default Re: Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

I've certainly not politicised it. Quite the opposite; simply expressed frustration for those who are.

And for those who continue to want to find someone blame for it all need to come to grips with the indisputable fact that this doesn't distinguish between borders, nationalities, races, or political persuasions. It is everybody's problem. That includes >YOU<.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 4:23 pm
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Default Re: Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
I've certainly not politicised it. Quite the opposite; simply expressed frustration for those who are.

And for those who continue to want to find someone blame for it all need to come to grips with the indisputable fact that this doesn't distinguish between borders, nationalities, races, or political persuasions. It is everybody's problem. That includes >YOU<.

Just heard it described on radio as an "equal opportunities virus"

It doesn't give a shit who you are or where your from...
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 6:12 pm
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Default Re: Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

My comments were not political in any way unless you count criticism of the Chinese government to be a politically charged statement on BE these days and I doubt you'd find many people who would support the Chinese government in this forum.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 6:15 pm
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Default Re: Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
I've certainly not politicised it. Quite the opposite; simply expressed frustration for those who are.

And for those who continue to want to find someone blame for it all need to come to grips with the indisputable fact that this doesn't distinguish between borders, nationalities, races, or political persuasions. It is everybody's problem. That includes >YOU<.
China caused both its inception and the plague that it has unleashed upon the world. It is a Chinese virus and China is responsible. I'm not sure how it can be made any clearer than that.

​​​​​​Basically China can **** off. Every single innocent person around the world who has suffered or died at the hands of this virus has been a victim of the Chinese government and western governments and tourism industries thinking only about the bottom line.
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Old Mar 21st 2020, 6:52 pm
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Default Re: Off topic Political Posts moved from Coronavirus thread

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
My comments were not political in any way unless you count criticism of the Chinese government to be a politically charged statement on BE these days and I doubt you'd find many people who would support the Chinese government in this forum.
No but you'll find quite a few who aren't the least bit impressed, under these circumstances, with the sowing of division, the pointing of fingers of blame and yet more aspersions about certain groups of foreigners. We can do without all of that right now.

The international community needs to act cooperatively and all nations need to do whatever's necessary towards helping each other in every possible way.
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