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New UK tax to pay for health care

New UK tax to pay for health care

Old Jul 27th 2020, 11:03 am
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Default New UK tax to pay for health care

Now there's a novel idea. Raise funds for something important, of benefit to all, by means of taxation.

Over-40s in UK to pay more tax under plans to fix social care crisis
Everyone over 40 would start contributing towards the cost of care in later life under radical plans being studied by ministers to finally end the crisis in social care, the Guardian can reveal. Under the plan over-40s would have to pay more in tax or national insurance, or be compelled to insure themselves against hefty bills for care when they are older. The money raised would then be used to pay for the help that frail elderly people need with washing, dressing and other activities if still at home, or to cover their stay in a care home.
Does this mean that increased taxation is no longer a vote loser then and that people can be persuaded of the "greater good" argument?

The obvious question is why at 40? Is it because if you don't make it to 40, instead of getting your money back it's easier if you didn't pay at all?

Seriously, why not just identify how much is needed and raise the necessary over a longer period?

My dad, at age 40, moved the family from a council house to our own house with a mortgage. He and my (then) at home mum had four sons between 5 and 14. I would imagine that was fairly usual. Is raising a young family a good time to be faced with a significant increase in tax? Why not just have it established at an earlier point with the cost spread?
The system that officials are considering is a modified version of how Japan and Germany fund social care. Both are widely admired for having created a sustainable way of financing social care to deal with the rising needs an ageing population brings.

In Japan everyone starts contributing once they reach 40. In Germany everyone pays something towards that cost from the time they start working, and pensioners contribute too. Currently 1.5% of every person’s salary, and a further 1.5% from employers or pension funds, are ringfenced to pay for care in later life.
The German method sounds good. Anyone know why Japan does it that way?
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 12:06 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Shouldn’t they be cutting taxes, rather than considering a tax increase? After all, it’s a well known fact that tax cuts lead to economic growth - so more money for social care (if indeed it is needed. Isn’t current pandemic response designed to thin the herd?)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/...tates-economy/
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 1:15 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Shouldn't they first try to get some money from the tax-dodgers (eg Mogg) ?
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 1:30 pm
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Smile Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Shouldn't they first try to get some money from the tax-dodgers (eg Mogg) ?
Because of goggle i have just read ten things about voltaire,A very interesting man it seems.I could even claim he is half english since he was exiled to england for three years in 1726.thank you annetje
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 4:08 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Now there's a novel idea. Raise funds for something important, of benefit to all, by means of taxation.

Over-40s in UK to pay more tax under plans to fix social care crisis

Does this mean that increased taxation is no longer a vote loser then and that people can be persuaded of the "greater good" argument?

The obvious question is why at 40? Is it because if you don't make it to 40, instead of getting your money back it's easier if you didn't pay at all?

Seriously, why not just identify how much is needed and raise the necessary over a longer period?

My dad, at age 40, moved the family from a council house to our own house with a mortgage. He and my (then) at home mum had four sons between 5 and 14. I would imagine that was fairly usual. Is raising a young family a good time to be faced with a significant increase in tax? Why not just have it established at an earlier point with the cost spread?
The German method sounds good. Anyone know why Japan does it that way?

Is the idea that only those over 40 contribute because they are earning more by then? Or because they have had the impertinence to survive that long? I'm not sure of the point of splitting this off as a separate tax as opposed to it just being part of our social care into which all working adults pay. I'm all for progressive taxes, as in those who make more pay more proportionally because they can, and as other have said even more would I be in favour of rational corporate taxing so that corporations do actually pay. I mean, they are the ones working us into the ground so they least they can do is contribute when we get old and rickety
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Aren't they solving the issue by increasing the retirement age all the time? Everyone will work until they drop and they won't have to have anyone look after them.
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 6:31 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
The obvious question is why at 40? Is it because if you don't make it to 40, instead of getting your money back it's easier if you didn't pay at all?
I readily admit that I don't know, but my hunch is that the reason for the tax being introduced (at least initially) for the over-forties is so that the older generation, who for most of their lives won't have paid it, won't benefit disproportionately from being cared for at the cost of members of the younger adult generation, who face paying it for up to fifty years before enjoying the benefits.

I can imagine the age threshold being lowered progressively in the future, just as the retirement age is being progressively increased.
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 7:22 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
I readily admit that I don't know, but my hunch is that the reason for the tax being introduced (at least initially) for the over-forties is so that the older generation, who for most of their lives won't have paid it, won't benefit disproportionately from being cared for at the cost of members of the younger adult generation, who face paying it for up to fifty years before enjoying the benefits.

I can imagine the age threshold being lowered progressively in the future, just as the retirement age is being progressively increased.
Interesting idea.

I just looked about Japan and it seems their system was introduced in 2000, qualifiers being those at 65 and paid for by mandatory premiums (not general or % taxation) from those over 40 and user co-pays. No mention of staging but I suppose there could have been some or some future staging.

I thought maybe 40 reasoning that 30 is the age when people were encouraged to plan for retirement and arbitrarily add another 10 years for ill health retirement or just 40 being the new 30 as people live longer.

I like the sound of the German system but don't see why it needs to be called something else. I mean the UK has NI for some things and Taxes for others but is NI money ringfenced and never used as tax revenue and vice versa or does it all go in the same pot?

You know, just pay an overall tax contribution. We don't pay 2% for this, 4% for that, 12% for something else and so on.
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 8:36 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post



You know, just pay an overall tax contribution. We don't pay 2% for this, 4% for that, 12% for something else and so on.
This. Once that sort of thing starts, care that ought to be a basic provision will become a luxury item only based on ability to pay in at certain levels. I can see a bronze, silver and gold level of care, etc.
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 8:38 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Shouldn’t they be cutting taxes, rather than considering a tax increase? After all, it’s a well known fact that tax cuts lead to economic growth
Er no, it's not, it's just nonsense that Republicans spout to reduce taxes for their donors while passing on the costs to the future tax payer by adding it to the deficit.
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 8:59 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by Anian View Post
Er no, it's not, it's just nonsense that Republicans spout to reduce taxes for their donors while passing on the costs to the future tax payer by adding it to the deficit.
I think he knows that

Check your sarcasm filter, it might have become clogged,
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Old Jul 28th 2020, 12:42 am
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by Anian View Post
Er no, it's not, it's just nonsense that Republicans spout to reduce taxes for their donors while passing on the costs to the future tax payer by adding it to the deficit.
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I think he knows that

Check your sarcasm filter, it might have become clogged,
And I thought I was giving the game away (sort of like using a ) by actually linking to a panegyric White House screed!!
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Old Jul 28th 2020, 7:20 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
And I thought I was giving the game away (sort of like using a ) by actually linking to a panegyric White House screed!!
There's a special name for when you hear so much incredibly dumb stuff that it becomes impossible to tell the difference between that and someone making a joke by making outlandish comments. That's this one.
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Old Jul 28th 2020, 7:37 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by Anian View Post
There's a special name for when you hear so much incredibly dumb stuff that it becomes impossible to tell the difference between that and someone making a joke by making outlandish comments. That's this one.
We've all had it. It's incredibly contagious
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Old Jul 28th 2020, 9:25 pm
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Default Re: New UK tax to pay for health care

Originally Posted by Anian View Post
There's a special name for when you hear so much incredibly dumb stuff that it becomes impossible to tell the difference between that and someone making a joke by making outlandish comments. That's this one.
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
We've all had it. It's incredibly contagious
Mind you, if the only inevitable things are death and taxes, maybe we should reduce taxes to make up for all the extra deaths?
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