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Margaret Thatcher has died.

Margaret Thatcher has died.

Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:31 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
If you thought so much of "your" Britain, you'd never have left.

But you did.

Therefore, while you're entitled to opinions regarding Britain, they're not as valid as those of the people who actually live here.
So, you think that all us expats left Britain because we no longer wanted to live there? That's kind of a narrow minded way of thinking don't ya think?
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:35 pm
  #77  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
If you thought so much of "your" Britain, you'd never have left.

But you did.

Therefore, while you're entitled to opinions regarding Britain, they're not as valid as those of the people who actually live here.
I'm fully expecting a knee jerk reaction to this but I care not ...

What utter twaddle. Nationality is an absolute - there is no degree of Britishness. Just because someone doesn't live there anymore, for whatever reason, doesn't lessen the weight of their argument.

But I'm glad you have bestowed upon me the entitlement to hold an opinion on the matter, however invalid you may then turn around and deem it to be.

Few of us left Britain because of Britain itself, so do try to think before you speak, or at least try being an expat for a while first, eh?
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:35 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by KTBFFH12 View Post
That'd be the progressive Britain that gives criminal failures a benefits package generous enough to afford broadband to post pompous drivel during the day - mainly thanks to 13 years of Labour rule?
A few progressive measures from the Labour government that have made this country a fairer and more equal society:

The minumum wage, already mentioned.
Tax credits.
Extra NHS funding.
SureStart centres and help with childcare.

All of which are aimed at helping the poorest working families in Britain and are a damn sight more generous than anything the previous Tory administrations implemented, or that the current Coalition seem prepared to continue with.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:38 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
I've never told anybody to "STFU". That's just an idiotic and needlessly inflammatory response.

I very rarely comment on American issues, but when I do, I wouldn't expect my views to be taken as seriously as those of the people who actually live there, or who are citizens. And I think the people on this forum are generally quick to point those sorts of things out.

Most of my posts are concerned with helping people with immigration problems. But you knew that anyway.
Don't worry your views aren't taken seriously.

Also, why do you post about immigration matters when you're not an immigrant yourself? How can you be of any help?

Last edited by zargof; Apr 9th 2013 at 1:43 pm.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:42 pm
  #80  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
I'm fully expecting a knee jerk reaction to this but I care not ...

What utter twaddle. Nationality is an absolute - there is no degree of Britishness. Just because someone doesn't live there anymore, for whatever reason, doesn't lessen the weight of their argument.

But I'm glad you have bestowed upon me the entitlement to hold an opinion on the matter, however invalid you may then turn around and deem it to be.

Few of us left Britain because of Britain itself, so do try to think before you speak, or at least try being an expat for a while first, eh?
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:45 pm
  #81  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
A few progressive measures from the Labour government that have made this country a fairer and more equal society:

The minumum wage, already mentioned.
Tax credits.
Extra NHS funding.
SureStart centres and help with childcare.

All of which are aimed at helping the poorest working families in Britain and are a damn sight more generous than anything the previous Tory administrations implemented, or that the current Coalition seem prepared to continue with.
Your views are irrelevant as they are coloured by your introspection, you have no contemporary external reference points to compare against.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:49 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by Englishtart View Post
So, you think that all us expats left Britain because we no longer wanted to live there? That's kind of a narrow minded way of thinking don't ya think?
Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
I'm fully expecting a knee jerk reaction to this but I care not ...

What utter twaddle. Nationality is an absolute - there is no degree of Britishness. Just because someone doesn't live there anymore, for whatever reason, doesn't lessen the weight of their argument.

But I'm glad you have bestowed upon me the entitlement to hold an opinion on the matter, however invalid you may then turn around and deem it to be.

Few of us left Britain because of Britain itself, so do try to think before you speak, or at least try being an expat for a while first, eh?
Expats have all made a choice to leave their country of origin. The reasoning behind it is irrelevant. The lure of another place was stronger than Britain.

You also seem to be ignoring a fundamental issue. How can anyone have a fully informed opinion about the Britain of today when they don't live here and experience current things first hand?

After all, that is the same advice regularly dished out by expats here to people thinking of emigrating. That you need to be resident and immersed in the place to fully understand it.

Expats will always be British but there will be a disconnection between what they think and what those of us still resident in the UK think. In fact, that's something that is also touched on across this forum, so what I'm saying isn't rocket science.

The people best placed to comment on current British issues are the people who live here. Trying to convince yourselves that your views have the same relevance across thousands of miles is futile.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:51 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The lure of another place was stronger than Britain.
No, no and no again.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:52 pm
  #84  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by zargof View Post
Don't worry your views aren't taken seriously.

Also, why do you post about immigration matters when you're not an immigrant yourself? How can you be of any help?
Immigration is a wide topic and also includes the practicalities of visiting a country rather than emigrating from Britain. And I have plenty of experience of that. Nice try though.

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Your views are irrelevant as they are coloured by your introspection, you have no contemporary external reference points to compare against.
The measures specified are UK internal matters and don't exist in any external reference frame, so your point is moot.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:55 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

My husband and I would rather live in the UK, but my company refuses to transfer me and it's extremely unlikely he could get a job on short notice in western NI that pays enough to satisfy UK immigration and me at the same time (heh).

That doesn't give me the right to pontificate on UK politics. I'm not part of the culture and I don't understand the history, as I am reminded by reading posts here, listening to my husband talk, or hearing my sisters-in-law laugh when I get something embarrassingly wrong. Nobody questions my right to have an opinion on something, though, just the validity of the opinion.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 1:59 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

I think, as an expat, you can still hold as valid an opinion on a specific issue, as it may have been something that you were very close to back home and are probably better informed than the vast majority in the UK.

But I don't think you have the same appreciation for living there anymore - we don't see how cheery or otherwise people look on the bus, what the cabbies are moaning about, what the petrol prices are as we drive past, how much a loaf of bread is in Tesco, how much graffiti there currently is in the city centre, which shops are boarded up and which ones are new, the state of the roads, etc. etc. etc.

All that is part of the fabric of day to day life in a country - you can try to keep up with it, and the internet is great for making that somewhat possible, but there is no substitute for experiencing it first hand.

I'm glad I was too young to experience either the 70s or the 80s really, so I have no opinion on her - I can see some of the merits of both sides on this one (cue flames from both sides).

Oh, and materialcontroller is very helpful for people needing waivers on a B2 - I don't think anyone could dispute that!

Edit & add

I still think it's perfectly valid for expats to hold an opinion (I have many); I just think it is much harder work to be truly representative of current conditions without living in it yourself, even with the internet and family accounts of life available.

Last edited by Mr Weeze; Apr 9th 2013 at 2:59 pm. Reason: typo
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 2:04 pm
  #87  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The measures specified are UK internal matters and don't exist in any external reference frame, so your point is moot.
There is no such animal.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 2:04 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by Mr Weeze View Post
I think, as an expat, you can still hope as valid an opinion on a specific issue, as it may have been something that you were very close to back home and are probably better informed than the vast majority in the UK.

But I don't think you have the same appreciation for living there anymore - we don't see how cheery or otherwise people look on the bus, what the cabbies are moaning about, what the petrol prices are as we drive past, how much a loaf of bread is in Tesco, how much graffiti there currently is in the city centre, which shops are boarded up and which ones are new, the state of the roads, etc. etc. etc.

All that is part of the fabric of day to day life in a country - you can try to keep up with it, and the internet is great for making that somewhat possible, but there is no substitute for experiencing it first hand.

Oh, and I'm glad I was too young to experience either the 70s or the 80s really, so I have no opinion on her - I can see some of the merits of both sides on this one (cue flames from both sides).

Oh, and materialcontroller is very helpful for people needing waivers on a B2 - I don't think anyone could dispute that!
Thank you Mr Weeze. That is an excellent post.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 2:07 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by Mr Weeze View Post
I think, as an expat, you can still hope as valid an opinion on a specific issue, as it may have been something that you were very close to back home and are probably better informed than the vast majority in the UK.

But I don't think you have the same appreciation for living there anymore - we don't see how cheery or otherwise people look on the bus, what the cabbies are moaning about, what the petrol prices are as we drive past, how much a loaf of bread is in Tesco, how much graffiti there currently is in the city centre, which shops are boarded up and which ones are new, the state of the roads, etc. etc. etc.

All that is part of the fabric of day to day life in a country - you can try to keep up with it, and the internet is great for making that somewhat possible, but there is no substitute for experiencing it first hand.

Oh, and I'm glad I was too young to experience either the 70s or the 80s really, so I have no opinion on her - I can see some of the merits of both sides on this one (cue flames from both sides).

Oh, and materialcontroller is very helpful for people needing waivers on a B2 - I don't think anyone could dispute that!
It is about being a stakeholder Mr Weeze.
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Old Apr 9th 2013, 2:09 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher has died.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The reasoning behind it is irrelevant. The lure of another place was stronger than Britain.
Complete bollocks. The only people using that as a reason are the 'I just got back from a two week vacation in Florida ...' types.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
You also seem to be ignoring a fundamental issue. How can anyone have a fully informed opinion about the Britain of today when they don't live here and experience current things first hand?
One 'informs' oneself with 'information'. It is very easy to keep up with things back in the UK, by reading the news, staying in touch with friends and relatives. One is no longer isolated even if they are miles away. You don't have to live somewhere to know what is going on there.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
After all, that is the same advice regularly dished out by expats here to people thinking of emigrating. That you need to be resident and immersed in the place to fully understand it.
That is a) not always the advice given and b) not fully correct.

All I try to advise is that the would-be immigrant does some research. That doesn't require a physical presence, as only being somewhere a few weeks or even a few months as a tourist doesn't give a complete impression anyway.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Expats will always be British but there will be a disconnection between what they think and what those of us still resident in the UK think. In fact, that's something that is also touched on across this forum, so what I'm saying isn't rocket science.
Incorrect. It's quite mind bogglingly arrogant to think so. Just because it's touched on across the forum doesn't make it right, either.

Not brain surgery, that ...

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The people best placed to comment on current British issues are the people who live here. Trying to convince yourselves that your views have the same relevance across thousands of miles is futile.
I could probably build an argument that there are at least a few people living elsewhere who are better informed about the UK, by using the various information sources available to them, than many residents. Physical presence just brings you closer to what is happening, one can still choose to ignore it, even if they are there.

What a tedious argument.
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