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Labour on the fence

Labour on the fence

Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:23 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Not sure about that either.

Not sure about anything very much. But I can see that he does not want to split the Labour vote.
He might inadvertently split it. LD has a clear response on Brexit, if builds momentum, who knows.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:25 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yet it could lead to the impasse lasting another 9 months, and by that point the EU will probably not offer further extensions and the ERG will get their dasterdly way.

It is a high stakes game all around, from every possible angle. There is going to be a GE. If Labour campaigned now on a full Remain only platform there is a possibility that they split the vote and hand the Tories the win and at that point the Head Boy can do pretty much anything he likes in his private playground, unless he fails to get a majority at which point the dealing with "allies" will begin.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:26 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It is a high stakes game all around, from every possible angle. There is going to be a GE. If Labour campaigned now on a full Remain only platform there is a possibility that they split the vote and hand the Tories the win and at that point the Head Boy can do pretty much anything he likes in his private playground, unless he fails to get a majority at which point the dealing with "allies" will begin.
Hmmm. Yes. A bit of a dilemma. I agree that booting the Charlatan and his cabal out is the highest priority.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:27 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
He might inadvertently split it. LD has a clear response on Brexit, if builds momentum, who knows.

They do. But they only have 16 seats in Parliament and have said they will never ally with Labour/Corbyn, so if the population is engaged in any way in tactical voting, they will see that if Boris is the biggest evil and it's just about impossible for the Lib Dems to capture over 300 new seats (which it probably is, with all the momentum in the world), then the only real non-Tory choice will be Labour. If we had proportional representation of some kind that might not be the case, but we don't.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 5:26 am
  #65  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
When you read their actual policy platforms, there doesn't seem to be much for "ordinary people" to dislike. Rather the contrary. I'm at a loss as to why anyone would choose the current Tory cabal's self-interested and destructive behaviour.

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/
Thanks for sharing, there are lots of really interesting things in the manifesto and lots of clearly sensible policies.

I did spot this though:

Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.

Labour will not leave with no deal, instead they're going to get (if needs be) a deal to do a deal it seems. Would a deal on the deal have to go through parliament? I think the UK would explode at the thought of that.

This is where the lack of clarity and direction is apparent with Labour, in my opinion. Even if the opening gambit is that they respect the decision.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
So, assuming a GE, Labour wins (small majority) and then negotiates a BRINO, there's a possibility that that gets rejected by the public/Parliament is there not?
BRINO is probably worse than a no deal Brexit now. It's going to be so harmful to be one leg in a club with no rights.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 7:27 am
  #66  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Yes BRINO is likely inferior to what we have, but it might be necessary to placate the braying Brexit mob who only want the 2016 decision "respected". In due course EU rights and responsibilities could be regained, and as a nation we could treat the referendum as a lesson learned.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 2:59 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
They do. But they only have 16 seats in Parliament and have said they will never ally with Labour/Corbyn, so if the population is engaged in any way in tactical voting, they will see that if Boris is the biggest evil and it's just about impossible for the Lib Dems to capture over 300 new seats (which it probably is, with all the momentum in the world), then the only real non-Tory choice will be Labour. If we had proportional representation of some kind that might not be the case, but we don't.
Kier says:

“I have got mixed feelings about that. I personally think it is far better to say campaign to remain, and that is what I have said … I don’t think there is a deal that is going to be as good as the deal we have got.”

Somehow I think Labour are going to confuse voters with their BRINO/Remain offering.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Kier says:

“I have got mixed feelings about that. I personally think it is far better to say campaign to remain, and that is what I have said … I don’t think there is a deal that is going to be as good as the deal we have got.”

Somehow I think Labour are going to confuse voters with their BRINO/Remain offering.

Yeah. I can see it both ways really in terms of tactics to win an election. Johnson will be sticking to his "people vs parliament" thing, and now "people vs parliament and the courts". It's an easy message, even though it's as wrong as wrong can be.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 6:00 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Yeah. I can see it both ways really in terms of tactics to win an election. Johnson will be sticking to his "people vs parliament" thing, and now "people vs parliament and the courts". It's an easy message, even though it's as wrong as wrong can be.
I have a good friend that is very hard to talk to now as he fully subscribes to the 'Parliament betrayed the people' ideology. It really is tragic how parts of the media and Brexit fanatics have spun the European issue into something toxic.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Tell you one thing about Labour, they can't bloody sing

Other than that, they seem to have pulled the conference back together after a rocky start.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 6:30 pm
  #71  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Tell you one thing about Labour, they can't bloody sing
Some sort of mix-up in the hymn sheets department, maybe?

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Old Sep 24th 2019, 6:37 pm
  #72  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Some sort of mix-up in the hymn sheets department, maybe?
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 6:39 pm
  #73  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Some sort of mix-up in the hymn sheets department, maybe?
That's very good.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 6:53 pm
  #74  
 
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Some sort of mix-up in the hymn sheets department, maybe?
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
That's very good.
10 points.

Still, they need more Welsh people (cos they can sing) and frankly that lead guitar needs to go.
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Old Sep 24th 2019, 7:31 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
10 points.

Still, they need more Welsh people (cos they can sing) and frankly that lead guitar needs to go.
The "Johnson out!" chant was quite effective.
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