Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Old Apr 12th 2013, 5:16 pm
  #91  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,861
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by SATX John View Post
Enforce existing laws with the current and past admins do not, 44 prosecutions for 15000 felons attempting to buy guns, that did not pass the background check in 2010.
If 15k felons were stopped in their attempt to purchase a gun, then that indicates that background checks do actually have a positive impact, right? So I assume you are supportive of legislation to make them more universal?

As to prosecutions, we've discussed this before here. Proving perjury is non-trivial, but I sure question why there aren't more prosecutions.
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Apr 12th 2013, 6:22 pm
  #92  
L/R
Thread Starter
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 49,496
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
..... As to prosecutions, we've discussed this before here. Proving perjury is non-trivial, but I sure question why there aren't more prosecutions.
Agreed. .... As per my earlier point, and one made by much of the pro-gun lobby, there must be more done to enforce the laws we already have on the books, to which I would add two things (i) the penalties may need to be increased, and (ii) (IMO) that enforcement/ penalty initiative should not preclude some further restrictions where there is a moderate-strong likelihood of it reducing the number of firearms homicides.
Pulaski is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2013, 2:26 am
  #93  
BE Enthusiast
 
SATX John's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 899
SATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really nice
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Agreed. .... As per my earlier point, and one made by much of the pro-gun lobby, there must be more done to enforce the laws we already have on the books, to which I would add two things (i) the penalties may need to be increased, and (ii) (IMO) that enforcement/ penalty initiative should not preclude some further restrictions where there is a moderate-strong likelihood of it reducing the number of firearms homicides.
However the public support for bans on things that sound threatening cannot be discounted,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw
SATX John is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2013, 4:57 am
  #94  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 33,691
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Jennifer San Marco

Brenda Spencer (I guess Boiler was not a Boom town Rats fan)

Not to mention Adam Lanza's mum by proxy

I don't know why it applies to red heads, anyone know a red head that did this?
I was actually, I remember the quote but not that it was from a girl. Actually I bumped into someone who went on the same CC course, she is 18 and not allowed to have a CC permit until she is 21.

The other one I had never heard of, seemed a more obvious nutcase.

Lanza's mum is too remote, so just one. And they are the majority of the population.
Boiler is offline  
Old Apr 14th 2013, 12:56 am
  #95  
L/R
Thread Starter
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 49,496
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Probably the biggest thing that could be done to reduce firearms deaths in the medium to long term is to start tightening up and enforcing laws on allowing criminals, the mentally challenged, and children to obtain firearms. This should include proper security for weapons, storing them safely (unloaded), and keeping the ammunition separately and securely. Also timely reporting of a weapon being stolen. ......
I hear the bill coming up for a senate vote has a five year prison penalty for failing to report a theft within 24 hours!

Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 14th 2013 at 2:24 am.
Pulaski is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2013, 3:56 pm
  #96  
Maño-Americano
 
ironporer's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: In the heart of the Ozarks
Posts: 10,211
ironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond reputeironporer has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Clearly we need compulsory gender verification tests for gun purchasers.
Guns don't kill people, women don't kill people....MEN kill people.
ironporer is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2013, 4:08 pm
  #97  
Doin' It Right
 
SultanOfSwing's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 48,017
SultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond reputeSultanOfSwing has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by ironporer View Post
Guns don't kill people, women don't kill people....MEN kill people.
Actually, it's death that kills people but let's not split hairs ...
SultanOfSwing is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2013, 4:10 pm
  #98  
Fair and balanced
 
kimilseung's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 15,311
kimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I was actually, I remember the quote but not that it was from a girl. Actually I bumped into someone who went on the same CC course, she is 18 and not allowed to have a CC permit until she is 21.

The other one I had never heard of, seemed a more obvious nutcase.

Lanza's mum is too remote, so just one. And they are the majority of the population.
I knew of those two, because of the B' Rats and the other happened during my plans to move out, so I was paying attention a bit, I knew of the incidents, but I still had to look up their names, I assumed more names would pop up too, but they did not. Just the two.
kimilseung is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2013, 11:30 pm
  #99  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: City of Broad Shoulders
Posts: 57,932
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
I knew of those two, because of the B' Rats and the other happened during my plans to move out, so I was paying attention a bit, I knew of the incidents, but I still had to look up their names, I assumed more names would pop up too, but they did not. Just the two.
Anyway......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22194299

So much for rational behaviour, hmm?
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Apr 18th 2013, 12:08 am
  #100  
BE Enthusiast
 
SATX John's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 899
SATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really nice
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Actually, it's death that kills people but let's not split hairs ...
And Life is a terminal disease....

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Anyway......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22194299

So much for rational behaviour, hmm?
Democratic Sens. Mark Pryor (Ark.), Max Baucus (Mont.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), Mark Begich (Alaska) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) voted against it.

The deciding factor was 4 Dems, not the Republicans. Those 4 votes would have passed it. Reid was for procedural reasons, only.

GOP Sens. John McCain (Ariz.), Susan Collins (Maine), Pat Toomey (Pa.) and Mark Kirk (Ill.) voted "yes."

Who obstructed passage? 4 Democrats.

Can we now work on the economy, unemployment and the deficit ????

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gall...ortant-problem
SATX John is offline  
Old Apr 18th 2013, 12:11 am
  #101  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,861
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by SATX John View Post
And Life is a terminal disease....



Democratic Sens. Mark Pryor (Ark.), Max Baucus (Mont.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), Mark Begich (Alaska) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) voted against it.

The deciding factor was 4 Dems, not the Republicans. Those 4 votes would have passed it. Reid was for procedural reasons, only.

GOP Sens. John McCain (Ariz.), Susan Collins (Maine), Pat Toomey (Pa.) and Mark Kirk (Ill.) voted "yes."

Who obstructed passage? 4 Democrats.
54 + 4 = 60
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Apr 18th 2013, 12:38 am
  #102  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: City of Broad Shoulders
Posts: 57,932
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by SATX John View Post
And Life is a terminal disease....



Democratic Sens. Mark Pryor (Ark.), Max Baucus (Mont.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), Mark Begich (Alaska) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) voted against it.

The deciding factor was 4 Dems, not the Republicans. Those 4 votes would have passed it. Reid was for procedural reasons, only.

GOP Sens. John McCain (Ariz.), Susan Collins (Maine), Pat Toomey (Pa.) and Mark Kirk (Ill.) voted "yes."

Who obstructed passage? 4 Democrats.
Not that I care which party it was, but your logic is atrocious. 4 republicans voted in favour. You might as well say that if the Republicans were not in the NRA's pocket then more would have voted in favour and the bill would have passed.
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Apr 18th 2013, 12:43 am
  #103  
L/R
Thread Starter
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 49,496
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Not that I care which party it was, but your logic is atrocious. 4 republicans voted in favour. You might as well say that if the Republicans were not in the NRA's pocket then more would have voted in favour and the bill would have passed.
Senate votes are fungible (of equal value and totally interchangeable). Any six senators who voted against could be said to be the ones at fault, but in truth they all are!

Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 18th 2013 at 12:45 am.
Pulaski is offline  
Old Apr 18th 2013, 12:48 am
  #104  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: City of Broad Shoulders
Posts: 57,932
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Senate votes are fungible (of equal value and totally interchangeable). Any six senators who voted against could be said to be the ones at fault, but in truth they all are!
Exactly.

Along with those interests that pressured them.
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Apr 18th 2013, 12:48 am
  #105  
BE Enthusiast
 
SATX John's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 899
SATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really niceSATX John is just really nice
Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
54 + 4 = 60
Correct on the math to get to 60.

My point was if they cannot get their own party on board, what chance does any legislation have getting though, and a 58-42 would have put the blame squarely on the Republican party.

It would seem then that no one could convince 1 of 42 Senators, to vote yes is a failure of leadership to get the desired outcome.

How did the 2 independents vote, haven't seen that?

BTW I emailed my Senators and said I did not oppose the Background check bill if it exempts family members, which it did. NRA lied on the point.

All amendments failed it seems:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...eck-amendment/

Several of which seem benign, IMHO.

Leahy-Collins amendment 58-42

The Burr amendment 56-44

Cornyn amendment 57-43

Cruz-Grassley amendment 52-48

Last edited by SATX John; Apr 18th 2013 at 1:02 am.
SATX John is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.