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It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:57 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
.... rather than political theatrics.
How long have you been here? .... Apparently not long enough to understand how American politicians operate!

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Old Apr 11th 2013, 5:40 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
That makes a whole load of sense, which unfortunately pretty much condemns it to failure. The NRA and their buddies are just going to argue that that imposes too many restrictions and inhibits their ability to defend themselves in the event someone breaks into their homes. Its not the guns that need to be taken out of the equation - its the NRA. I fear no common sense progress will be made while they maintain the sway they currently do (see yesterdays blackmail - vote with us or we'll downgrade your ratings, and they have the politicians running scared).
Although the NRA have been beating the drum about no new laws, enforce existing ones, so if they fought against it, they'd look even more silly than they do now. There were a number of people on a message board that I used to frequent that turned in their NRA membership due to the change in direction from the mid 70s when they joined the organisation.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 10:58 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by rallybug View Post
Although the NRA have been beating the drum about no new laws, enforce existing ones, so if they fought against it, they'd look even more silly than they do now. There were a number of people on a message board that I used to frequent that turned in their NRA membership due to the change in direction from the mid 70s when they joined the organisation.
There is a very informative set of data on mass shootings over the last 20 years at:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ones-full-data

Just doing a quick overview I am surprised to see that out of the 62 mass shooting sprees:
1- 41 have happened since the Brady Bill mandated background checks
2- Only 12 obtained their weapon illegally
3- 49 obtained their weapons legally
4- 16 Occured during the Assault weapons ban
5- reading the mental health notes, it seems that only 1 couple would be prohibited from purchasing guns by the CC, as well as others who may have been felons or convicted of Domestic abuse (no data on those)

I am not a gun freak, in fact I do not own any; and have only ever owned one in my life- 1 .22 rifle used to shoot tin cans etc years ago. I am not a NRA member nor supporter- I am just a realist who wonders how the F*&k these new proposals will change a GD thing?
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 12:24 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by ironporer View Post
There is a very informative set of data on mass shootings over the last 20 years at:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ones-full-data

Just doing a quick overview I am surprised to see that out of the 62 mass shooting sprees:
1- 41 have happened since the Brady Bill mandated background checks
2- Only 12 obtained their weapon illegally
3- 49 obtained their weapons legally
4- 16 Occured during the Assault weapons ban
5- reading the mental health notes, it seems that only 1 couple would be prohibited from purchasing guns by the CC, as well as others who may have been felons or convicted of Domestic abuse (no data on those)

I am not a gun freak, in fact I do not own any; and have only ever owned one in my life- 1 .22 rifle used to shoot tin cans etc years ago. I am not a NRA member nor supporter- I am just a realist who wonders how the F*&k these new proposals will change a GD thing?
According to your linked article, "More than half of the killers we studied in our investigation of 62 mass shootings over the last three decades possessed weapons that would be banned by Feinstein's bill, including various semiautomatic rifles, guns with military features, and handguns using magazines with more than 10 rounds."

Half is a long ways from being 100%, of course.
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:05 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
According to your linked article, "More than half of the killers we studied in our investigation of 62 mass shootings over the last three decades possessed weapons that would be banned by Feinstein's bill, including various semiautomatic rifles, guns with military features, and handguns using magazines with more than 10 rounds. .....
The problem with that statistic is that the killers likely used any available gun at hand, so in future the gun at hand might look less scary, but it is still a machine designed for killing. I would doubt that the likelihood of some going on a killing spree has much to do with whether the gun "looks scary".

Given that a semi-competent gunman can switch magazines in 1-2 seconds, or less, and without taking his eyes off the target, the magazine size is a red herring anyway.

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Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:14 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Did occur to me that if you did want to do a gun comparison, it is not valid for a whole variety of reasons, you should compare the UK with US where a restrictive line is not taken. So Colorado would be a fair comparison, Chicago and DC would not as they and CA have a high Brady score.

I am assuming UK is over 75.
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 2:23 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
The problem with that statistic is that the killers likely used any available gun at hand, so in future the gun at hand might look less scary, but it is still a machine designed for killing. I would doubt that the likelihood of some going on a killing spree has much to do with whether the gun "looks scary".

Given that a semi-competent gunman can switch magazines in 1-2 seconds, or less, and without taking his eyes off the target, the magazine size is a red herring anyway.
Indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z67PNOuj93w
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 2:54 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
How long have you been here? .... Apparently not long enough to understand how American politicians operate!
It was wishful thinking...
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 4:12 am
  #84  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by rallybug View Post
Although the NRA have been beating the drum about no new laws, enforce existing ones, so if they fought against it, they'd look even more silly than they do now. There were a number of people on a message board that I used to frequent that turned in their NRA membership due to the change in direction from the mid 70s when they joined the organisation.
Enforce existing laws with the current and past admins do not, 44 prosecutions for 15000 felons attempting to buy guns, that did not pass the background check in 2010.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
According to your linked article, "More than half of the killers we studied in our investigation of 62 mass shootings over the last three decades possessed weapons that would be banned by Feinstein's bill, including various semiautomatic rifles, guns with military features, and handguns using magazines with more than 10 rounds."

Half is a long ways from being 100%, of course.
Yet mass shootings account for a small amount of total firearms deaths, so is you solution and Australian Ban and confiscation, to get to your 100%?

Guns with military features, means what? It shoots a bullet? and a magazine with 10+ rds, I guess they covered their bases, since nearly all semi auto pistol hole more than 10 rds.

Of course that would only apply to those that follow the law, right?

I see very few here addressing the starting point of this thread, that is not just the guns. That said, I have not heard of the Mental Health Bill, being worked on by anyone, or was that Universal Health Care, and I missed it?
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 3:05 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Why does this ban apply to women?

Do not recollect any women undertaking such acts.
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Why does this ban apply to women?

Do not recollect any women undertaking such acts.
Jennifer San Marco

Brenda Spencer (I guess Boiler was not a Boom town Rats fan)

Not to mention Adam Lanza's mum by proxy

I don't know why it applies to red heads, anyone know a red head that did this?

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Old Apr 12th 2013, 3:47 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Jennifer San Marco

I don't know why it applies to red heads, anyone know a red head that did this?
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
OK, well what about dwarves?
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 4:01 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Who do you think I am - Nutek?

This one has potential...
It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon-thcamgtraf.jpg

And I think it covered ladies, blondes and people with questionable dress sense all at the same time.
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 5:09 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Why does this ban apply to women?

Do not recollect any women undertaking such acts.
Clearly we need compulsory gender verification tests for gun purchasers.
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