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It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Old Apr 11th 2013, 2:55 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Murder rate in the UK as compared to the US?
I looked but could not find it. Seems generally accepted that knife crimes are epidemic in the UK, and it seems much more prevalent than in the US.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 2:59 am
  #62  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I looked but could not find it. Seems generally accepted that knife crimes are epidemic in the UK, and it seems much more prevalent than in the US.
I'm sure a higher percentage of violent crimes feature a knife in the UK than in the US. I mean, many are likely to arm themselves with more lethal weaponry if it's available. But without knowing relative levels of violent crime it's moot.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:36 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
How about the c 300,000 deaths a year attributed to obesity?

One every 90 seconds.

Plus the reduced life expectancy.

The UK have 30,000 knife incidents a year, so pro rata that would be equivalent to 150,000 a year in the US.
What a stupid comment.

Obesity is mainly self-inflicted, you can't kill anyone by throwing a Big Mac at them.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:54 am
  #64  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Cool, I'm off to buy a Vickers then ...
Do you remember the buffoon from Croydon, with the collection of heavy weaponry, who got into a legal argument with the local council? The case ended up at the high court. The council told him he didn't have the right planning permission to park his vehicles on his property in suburban Croydon, but they were taxed and insured, .... so him parked them in the street, which really pi$$ed off his neighbors, who had been the ones that complained to the council about them being on his property in the first place!

Anyhow he had some sort of armoured car, and an Abbott self propelled gun and he used to bring them into the City when he had a court hearing. On one occasion the Abbott broke down outside my office, though when it first appeared we wondered WTF we could hear outside because it sounded like a tank coming down Fetter Lane, ...... which it more-or-less was!

The last time I heard of him he had been sent to prison for a few days after the police had pursued him through the narrow streets of Soho in his armoured car and had ripped the door mirrors off a.row of parked cars.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 4:04 am
  #65  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Do you remember the buffoon from Croydon, with the collection of heavy weaponry, who got into a legal argument with the local council? The case ended up at the high court. The council told him he didn't have the right planning permission to park his vehicles on his property in suburban Croydon, but they were taxed and insured, .... so him parked them in the street, which really pi$$ed off his neighbors, who had been the ones that complained to the council about them being on his property in the first place!

Anyhow he had some sort of armoured car, and an Abbott self propelled gun and he used to bring them into the City when he had a court hearing. On one occasion the Abbott broke down outside my office, though when it first appeared we wondered WTF we could hear outside because it sounded like a tank coming down Fetter Lane, ...... which it more-or-less was!

The last time I heard of him he had been sent to prison for a few days after the police had pursued him through the narrow streets of Soho in his armoured car and had ripped the door mirrors off a.row of parked cars.
I never heard about that
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 4:10 am
  #66  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
I never heard about that
http://www.urban75.net/forums/thread....104519/page-2

Still looking for pictures!

http://m.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/st...l?aid=16248492
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/287249

Found it! :
This is right outside the High Court - though not the time it broke down in Fetter Lane, just around the corner, because that time it didn't have the marlin on top, ..... it had a fibreglass pig in a police uniform!

Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 11th 2013 at 4:40 am.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 4:53 am
  #67  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by N1cky View Post
What a stupid comment.

Obesity is mainly self-inflicted, you can't kill anyone by throwing a Big Mac at them.
Unless you've a good thrower and someone chokes on it
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:13 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by N1cky View Post
What a stupid comment.

Obesity is mainly self-inflicted, you can't kill anyone by throwing a Big Mac at them.
Judging by the number of obese children I have seen there are certainly parental assistance.

Many Gun deaths/injuries are self inflicted.

The same could be said for vehicles.

The point is that is you really wanted to get the biggest bang for your buck you would focus first on the low hanging fruit, the big numbers with a possible solution rather that political theatrics.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:18 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Probably the biggest thing that could be done to reduce firearms deaths in the medium to long term is to start tightening up and enforcing laws on allowing criminals, the mentally challenged, and children to obtain firearms. This should include proper security for weapons, storing them safely (unloaded), and keeping the ammunition separately and securely. Also timely reporting of a weapon being stolen. Until law abiding gun owners are held accountable for proper storage of their weapons, and punished harshly for allowing them to fall into the hands of people not fit and/or permitted to handle them, there are going to be many more Sandy Hook- like tragedies. Of course in that case the shooter killed the owner (his mother), who paid the ultimate price for her folly, but she had no business allowing him to handle the weapons, much less to take them and the ammunition (apparently) without her consent. If either the guns or the ammo had been stored securely (and both should have been) it is a unlikley events would have unfolded the way they did.

I believe this approach could be effective because it would open the door to after-the-fact determination of mental incompetence - in other words proving that, say, parents had good reason to know that their (adult) child was incompetent to handle a weapon not withstanding the lack of a prior medical determination of mental incompetence.
That makes a whole load of sense, which unfortunately pretty much condemns it to failure. The NRA and their buddies are just going to argue that that imposes too many restrictions and inhibits their ability to defend themselves in the event someone breaks into their homes. Its not the guns that need to be taken out of the equation - its the NRA. I fear no common sense progress will be made while they maintain the sway they currently do (see yesterdays blackmail - vote with us or we'll downgrade your ratings, and they have the politicians running scared).

My eldest (11) is going camping this weekend to a ranch owned by one of the leaders. It's a shooting weekend with all sorts of weapons to shoot ranging from black powder to shotguns to handguns. They've been doing it for years, and all is incredibly well run by experienced, certified rangemasters, many of them ex-military. I have no concerns that it will be a safely run event, and as I am not "gun-savvy", but my kids are growing up in the environment they are, I see it as a good opportunity to learn gun safety from some sensible folk I have a lot of respect for, and trust in.

Anyway, to the point - every year when they are about to do this campout there is a reminder sent out that as it is a Scout event, the adults are not allowed to wear political slogans on their clothes - ie leave the NRA T's at home. This year one of the dads commented to me that it was a bit of a redundant email, as of the 14 NRA members that attended last year, 13 are no longer members. Just a small microcosm though, and unfortunately not reflected across the country from what I see in the press. Shame, really...
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:19 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Judging by the number of obese children I have seen there are certainly parental assistance.

Many Gun deaths/injuries are self inflicted.

The same could be said for vehicles.

The point is that is you really wanted to get the biggest bang for your buck you would focus first on the low hanging fruit, the big numbers with a possible solution rather that political theatrics.
That is a very weak argument. Guns are designed to kill...food and cars are not.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:20 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Judging by the number of obese children I have seen there are certainly parental assistance.

Many Gun deaths/injuries are self inflicted.

The same could be said for vehicles.

The point is that is you really wanted to get the biggest bang for your buck you would focus first on the low hanging fruit, the big numbers with a possible solution rather that political theatrics.
Ever heard of "multi-tasking"
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:26 pm
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
Ever heard of "multi-tasking"
I was just going to say..... this isn't an either/or situation and one is totally irrelevant to the other.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:35 pm
  #73  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
Ever heard of "multi-tasking"
I have also hear of grandstanding.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:41 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I have also hear of grandstanding.
How about "diversionary tactics"?
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:44 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Cardienscarf View Post
I was just going to say..... this isn't an either/or situation and one is totally irrelevant to the other.
Indeed.
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