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It's all getting ridiculous now

It's all getting ridiculous now

Old Jun 12th 2020, 9:17 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I believe the programmes removed were because of "blackface" rather than black people. There are many things that were done, without evil intent but simply because the institutions thought them acceptable at the time that we would no longer do now.

Would we show this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmbFdenAb7o

Or this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

This of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo


And of course, the endless jokes about male homosexuality and "poofs". And much more recently, I've never been able to make up my mind about Ricky Gervais, who in many ways seems just exploitative of people with disabilities to my eye.

These things have been getting quietly removed from broadcast for decades. It isn't new. Only the major coverage of it is new. I don't really see much point to gratuitously offending people with jokes now deemed to be tasteless. There is a discussion to be had about when and how poking fun at something is tearing it down or building it up. The British are very good at taking the piss out of racists and their ignorant attitudes, for example, as well as other types of actions and behaviour, and thereby disempowering them and their ideologies. And then sometimes, it isn't that at all. Sometimes it's a "why can't I make jokes about gay people/Romany/Black people/women/disabled people/ etc etc etc - you lot should just get a sense of humour." Good judgement and good taste is knowing the difference.

Perhaps there's a better place to spend energy. Rather than spluttering about some of the fallout from attempting to undo structural racism, we could focus on the source of the problem rather than trying to deny it or pretend it isn't a big deal or, in particular, telling the people who are actually experiencing it that they are "doing it all wrong" when it comes to fixing it and should instead use methods comfortable for the people who aren't experiencing it.

If we could do that, then maybe the other stuff would stop too.
I think there's a huge difference between minstrel black face and the shows that have been cancelled. For instance, the papa lazarou character in LOG, he's nothing but a creepy kidnapping clown, I struggle to see any indent to offend.

What I find most offensive is that they're taking away my ability to make up my own mind what I find offensive or un funny. That's where Ricky gervais is absolutely right, joke about what you like, if someone doesn't find it funny they'll switch off, it's a good system.

This is the thin end of a wedge that will result in some extremely dull comedy, full of inoffensive Peter Kaye clones. All subjects should be fair game or none, picking and choosing on the basis of causing offence is stupidity.

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Old Jun 12th 2020, 9:27 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Jokes of the future

3 fellas walk into a bar one was (sorry joke ends)
3 holy men sat on a train one was (sorry joke ends)


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Old Jun 12th 2020, 9:54 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

UKTV to reinstate Fawlty Towers episode The Germans
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Old Jun 12th 2020, 9:59 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

that was such an I'll thought out idea in the first place, worried about offending Germans, but not the Spanish it seems.
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Old Jun 12th 2020, 10:11 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
that was such an I'll thought out idea in the first place, worried about offending Germans, but not the Spanish it seems.
Might it not have been more about this?

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Old Jun 12th 2020, 10:31 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Might it not have been more about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7L_cte7PA
That's even worse, so what we're saying is that you can't offend black people but the Germans and Spanish are fair game? I don't recall that part of the scene ever being in it in fairness , that was cut from the DVD years ago, and rightly so. However, the major was the butt of his own antiquated colonial attitude, even back when it was made.

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Old Jun 13th 2020, 12:56 am
  #22  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

I can't really see a problem. It's just private companies exercising their right to add or remove programs/films. The cynic in me thinks that their primary reason for removing the named productions probably has more to do with being keen not to damage their brand than anything else but the fact remains that it's their decision to make. I'm sure that all those movies/series are available in other forms for those that want to watch them.

I guess if people feel strongly enough about it they could boycott Netflix and cancel their subscription.
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Old Jun 13th 2020, 1:21 am
  #23  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I can't really see a problem. It's just private companies exercising their right to add or remove programs/films. The cynic in me thinks that their primary reason for removing the named productions probably has more to do with being keen not to damage their brand than anything else but the fact remains that it's their decision to make. I'm sure that all those movies/series are available in other forms for those that want to watch them.

I guess if people feel strongly enough about it they could boycott Netflix and cancel their subscription.
I think the modern term is virtue signalling, and you're right it is. For me the problem is one of censorship, they're telling me what's offensive, I'm a big boy I can decide for myself what I think is over the top. If self preservation is the name of the game, I'll wager they'll lose viewers instead of keeping them, and I hope that is the case.
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Old Jun 13th 2020, 1:44 am
  #24  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I think there's a huge difference between minstrel black face and the shows that have been cancelled. For instance, the papa lazarou character in LOG, he's nothing but a creepy kidnapping clown, I struggle to see any indent to offend.

What I find most offensive is that they're taking away my ability to make up my own mind what I find offensive or un funny. That's where Ricky gervais is absolutely right, joke about what you like, if someone doesn't find it funny they'll switch off, it's a good system.

This is the thin end of a wedge that will result in some extremely dull comedy, full of inoffensive Peter Kaye clones. All subjects should be fair game or none, picking and choosing on the basis of causing offence is stupidity.
It doesn't matter how much people try to justify it, deleting content because it might or does offend someone is pure authoritarian lunacy and one of the very many ugly authoritarian faces of cultural marxism. I'm all for a brief warning at the start of the video that it might offend together with a brief categorisation of the type of offence it could cause, and maybe the ability for individuals to filter out search results of offence-causing categories if they wish. Also allow viewers to be a part of the categorisation process, perhaps. Other than that it should be left alone - together with the ability for people to freely comment and discuss the content.

Looking at the three videos that Comrade LIW has posted, the first I don't like at all but it was a weird smutty sense of humour that was going around in the UK in the 70s. Broadcast into our living rooms, It likely encouraged inappropriate behaviour back then with those who could not tell the difference between smutty sense of humour and the behaviour that is expected of a true gentleman. Hmmm gentlemanly behaviour... When last did you hear that one? And for that matter, what about lady-like behaviour? But I digress. That kind of comedy forms part of our generally awesome British comedy and sense of humour history and for better or worse reflects our social evolution and shows the journey that our culture has travelled/is travelling. On the subject of comedy I loath most of the snarky woke, bad languaged and sexual comedy that we get subjected to these days. I would be happy to choose to filter that out but if others like it who am I to stop them from watching it? Bring back the kinds of stand up comedians like Little and Large and Tommy Cooper, I say. And if some of their humour is offensive to some then good! People need to toughen up and get over themselves. And if they don't want to then fine - let them categorise it and filter it out - no-one has to watch it.

Video 2 of Comrade LIW's selection. At first I thought she was a midget and then realised what it was. Yeah, little girls dressing up as and behaving as adults. I certainly don't approve of that kind of thing, wouldn't choose to watch it and wouldn't encourage that kind of behaviour by any children in my family. But it's weird times we've lived in for some years now - as demonstrated by the sexualisation of children from primary school age in the form of sex education classes, etc. But that is a thing of the far left - the same bunch responsible for the current lunacy. I've not seen our resident comrades come out in opposition to that so I presume they are fine with it?

Video three: What a delightful demonstration of musical and dancing talent and such a shame that it is no more. I remember in the 70s my family watching the Black and White Minstel Show and never once did anyone say anything disparaging, racist or nasty before during or after the show. And its intent was most definitely not to offend. It was entertainment and shows that this kind of thing if done respectfully does not have to be nasty and toxic. Sure, some of the other blackface stuff we see in more recent years is stupid and disrespectful but again people should be allowed to choose to watch it, not watch it or filter it out, not subscribe to to it, voice their opposition, support or neither to it, if they want to.

Really, these leftists should just get over themselves and stop being the intolerant and judgmental bastards they are so adept at accusing everyone else of being.
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Old Jun 13th 2020, 1:49 am
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I think the modern term is virtue signalling, and you're right it is. For me the problem is one of censorship, they're telling me what's offensive, I'm a big boy I can decide for myself what I think is over the top. If self preservation is the name of the game, I'll wager they'll lose viewers instead of keeping them, and I hope that is the case.
I think most people will just forget. They forget far more important things than this. I doubt viewers will be lost or gained, either way. People just don't pay that much attention most of the time. We have giant protests about assorted things, and a few weeks later it's as though they never happened.

What happens to these shows, in some cases likely temporarily, is one symptom of the real problems. We should be addressing those rather than trying to refocus the discussion around symptoms. Then other fallout can stop. People will try to use this issue to trivialize and distract from the main, core issues. Not you, but some will. Maybe we can get those straightened out first.
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Old Jun 13th 2020, 1:58 am
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I can't really see a problem. It's just private companies exercising their right to add or remove programs/films. The cynic in me thinks that their primary reason for removing the named productions probably has more to do with being keen not to damage their brand than anything else but the fact remains that it's their decision to make. I'm sure that all those movies/series are available in other forms for those that want to watch them.

I guess if people feel strongly enough about it they could boycott Netflix and cancel their subscription.
Interesting thing is they're pandering to the only a part of their viewership which if voting habits are anything to go by are only at best around 50% of their customers. The other 50% have been left angry so are defunding.
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Old Jun 13th 2020, 2:16 am
  #27  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I think most people will just forget. They forget far more important things than this. I doubt viewers will be lost or gained, either way. People just don't pay that much attention most of the time. We have giant protests about assorted things, and a few weeks later it's as though they never happened.

What happens to these shows, in some cases likely temporarily, is one symptom of the real problems. We should be addressing those rather than trying to refocus the discussion around symptoms. Then other fallout can stop. People will try to use this issue to trivialize and distract from the main, core issues. Not you, but some will. Maybe we can get those straightened out first.
when all you're showing is sanitized shite designed to avoid offending anyone people switch off, they will realize this eventually. These programs are not made to offend anyone in particular, just to push afew boundaries and get a people out of their comfort zones. Where does this stop? I watched white chicks the other day, two black fellas put on 'white face' should I be offended? Because I wasn't, if I didn't like it is have switched off, it's that simple.
yes there are bigger problems in the world, but it's possible to care about more than one issue at a time. The thing is though that this is only an issue because someone deems fit to make it one.
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Old Jun 13th 2020, 2:27 am
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
when all you're showing is sanitized shite designed to avoid offending anyone people switch off, they will realize this eventually. These programs are not made to offend anyone in particular, just to push afew boundaries and get a people out of their comfort zones. Where does this stop? I watched white chicks the other day, two black fellas put on 'white face' should I be offended? Because I wasn't, if I didn't like it is have switched off, it's that simple.
yes there are bigger problems in the world, but it's possible to care about more than one issue at a time. The thing is though that this is only an issue because someone deems fit to make it one.

I certainly don't want sanitized shite. And I'm fine with pushing certain boundaries, particularly ones that make people think, and then as i said there are the programs that poke fun at the ignorance and bigotry as a means to tear it down. Sometimes (and I'm not saying it's the case for these programmes specifically) standards, culture and opinions just change. There are many things that were once considered ok and no longer are, and without which we are probably better off on the whole. It isn't a case of intending to offend, or not, but more what the result is. People can be offensive because they just don't know or understand. There are a whole lot of things, not all of them to do with race by any means, that were done in the 70s that you just couldn't do now because people don't consider them acceptable any more. And of course, if there is something that offends nobody - like you and the guys in whiteface - then nobody is hurt. These channels haven't been told to delete anything. They have decided to do it for themselves.

And you are right that it's possible to care about more than one issue. What I was trying to say was that what is happening with these programs (and that has been going on for a while now, quite independent of the latest stuff) is an offshoot of the current bigger discussion. Resolving the issues in the bigger discussion will help sort out the smaller one. Going at it the other way round probably won't.

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Old Jun 13th 2020, 3:24 am
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

A really good video by Felix Rex that shows our Western civilisation while like every other civilisation in history was tainted by slavery, it stands alone in doing everything it can right up to the present day to stamp out slavery - yet our civilisation is continually being attacked for it.

Cultural Marxists close your eyes and plug your ears now.

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Old Jun 13th 2020, 3:29 am
  #30  
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Default Re: It's all getting ridiculous now

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I certainly don't want sanitized shite. And I'm fine with pushing certain boundaries, particularly ones that make people think, and then as i said there are the programs that poke fun at the ignorance and bigotry as a means to tear it down. Sometimes (and I'm not saying it's the case for these programmes specifically) standards, culture and opinions just change. There are many things that were once considered ok and no longer are, and without which we are probably better off on the whole. It isn't a case of intending to offend, or not, but more what the result is. People can be offensive because they just don't know or understand. There are a whole lot of things, not all of them to do with race by any means, that were done in the 70s that you just couldn't do now because people don't consider them acceptable any more. And of course, if there is something that offends nobody - like you and the guys in whiteface - then nobody is hurt. These channels haven't been told to delete anything. They have decided to do it for themselves.

And you are right that it's possible to care about more than one issue. What I was trying to say was that what is happening with these programs (and that has been going on for a while now, quite independent of the latest stuff) is an offshoot of the current bigger discussion. Resolving the issues in the bigger discussion will help sort out the smaller one. Going at it the other way round probably won't.
my problem is that I love a good dark, confrontational sense of humour, and can see where this might end up. I'm not a fan of how these streaming services work anyhow, I much prefer to pop down to blockbuster and rent some obscure b movie than make a choice from any top 50 list.

I know this probably makes me sound like one of them all lives matter wankers bit I'm not, I just think we should accept the past for what it was, warts n all, learn from it, don't deny it and move on. Systemic racism resulted in the murder of George Floyd, not a few off the wall comedy shows, i bet that the likes of Noel Fielding are .mortified that their comedy is deemed racist, for me the intent is everything, and his intent was a giggle nothing more.
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