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Imagine it's you

Imagine it's you

Old Jul 20th 2021, 11:19 am
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Unhappy Imagine it's you

We tried to be joyful enough to deserve our new lives’: What it’s really like to be a refugee in Britain

It was late afternoon when we arrived in Mazar-e-Sharif after a difficult, long journey from Kabul. The road was heavily mined – it remains so to this day – and the route was bordered with muddy graves marked by headstones with no names – victims of the mines...
All I knew how to say in English was “thank you” and “hasta la vista baby” – Terminator was a favourite film then – not realising that it wasn’t even English.
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 12:06 pm
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We have often used a Heathrow Taxi firm, run by Afghanistan 'previous' refugees. Obviously long conversations---many had to decide whether to escape to India or UK. They had settled well in UK but so much missed their homeland and it beauty--would return if it were possible. ---This withdrawal of troops and increase in Taliban activity caused me to think of them and obviously they will not be able to return as they would so much want!
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 12:39 pm
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And this:

"It’s difficult to describe the feeling of dislocation. People who are born in places that protect them from the misery of displacement find it hard to understand. Pictures of brown and black people on the news or on charity fundraising advertisements make them seem as if they are suspended in this one event – a famine, a war – as if nothing preceded the hunger or the violence and nothing will. People find it hard to relate to such wretchedness because, looking at those pictures, you feel as though this person’s fate is inevitable."


We talk about "migrants", "refugees", "asylum seekers" etc as though this status were the sum total of their being. Which of course it isn't. They are people, as the those labelled as "economic migrants" as though the fact that they are trying to make halfway decent lives for themselves and their families delegitimizes their rights and their personhood.

This entire subject, and any sentence including the works Priti Patel, makes me want to move permanently to the pissed off thread.


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Old Jul 20th 2021, 2:59 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And this:

"It’s difficult to describe the feeling of dislocation. People who are born in places that protect them from the misery of displacement find it hard to understand. Pictures of brown and black people on the news or on charity fundraising advertisements make them seem as if they are suspended in this one event – a famine, a war – as if nothing preceded the hunger or the violence and nothing will. People find it hard to relate to such wretchedness because, looking at those pictures, you feel as though this person’s fate is inevitable."


1) We talk about "migrants", "refugees", "asylum seekers" etc as though this status were the sum total of their being. Which of course it isn't. They are people, as the those labelled as "economic migrants" as though the fact that they are trying to make halfway decent lives for themselves and their families delegitimizes their rights and their personhood.

2) This entire subject, and any sentence including the works Priti Patel, makes me want to move permanently to the pissed off thread.
1) I agree with you regarding refugees, asylum seekers. Those in starvation poverty.
However there is a difference between them and economic migrants.
I presume many posting on this Forum are economic migrants---it is a 'choice'. Certainly illegal economic migrants are making difficulties for others including refugees.

(There is also the 'use' of migrant groups by those with terrorist aims, it cannot be ignored).

2) Priti Patel---descended from economic migrant grandparents and certainly parents would have been escapees from Uganda.
She certainly knows what racism is for school children---it gave her ambition----


No I don't like her right-wing attitudes and lack of scrutiny as to what is happening to asylum seekers in her name etc.
Why do you just select just her out of Government Ministers?


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Old Jul 20th 2021, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) I agree with you regarding refugees, asylum seekers. Those in starvation poverty.
However there is a difference between them and economic migrants.
I presume many posting on this Forum are economic migrants---it is a 'choice'. Certainly illegal economic migrants are making difficulties for others including refugees.

(There is also the 'use' of migrant groups by those with terrorist aims, it cannot be ignored).

2) Priti Patel---descended from economic migrant grandparents and certainly parents would have been escapees from Uganda.
She certainly knows what racism is for school children---it gave her ambition----


No I don't like her right-wing attitudes and lack of scrutiny as to what is happening to asylum seekers in her name etc.
Why do you just select just her out of Government Ministers?

Tbh, this shouldn't even be a discussion - it makes the country look mean and petty. How "starving" does somebody have to be to become acceptable to you as a migrant? "Illegal economic migrants are making things difficult for others"? No, UK policy is making things difficult for others.

If you're worried about "terrorist aims", then help to stop the UK from stimulating, funding, and arming endless wars for geopolitical aims and economic aims of its own, to hell with the population. In what sort of world do impoverished people looking to improve their economic situation get branded as "illegal" and "a problem", when entire countries are causing the situation with their own greed for the top 1% of their own population?

Why Patel? She's the Home Secretary. Borders, immigration, and security are her job. Who would you prefer to discuss with reference to immigration? The Minister for Sport?

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jul 20th 2021 at 4:59 pm.
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 6:37 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Tbh, this shouldn't even be a discussion - it makes the country look mean and petty. How "starving" does somebody have to be to become acceptable to you as a migrant? "Illegal economic migrants are making things difficult for others"? No, UK policy is making things difficult for others.

2) If you're worried about "terrorist aims", then help to stop the UK from stimulating, funding, and arming endless wars for geopolitical aims and economic aims of its own, to hell with the population. In what sort of world do impoverished people looking to improve their economic situation get branded as "illegal" and "a problem", when entire countries are causing the situation with their own greed for the top 1% of their own population?

3) Why Patel? She's the Home Secretary. Borders, immigration, and security are her job. Who would you prefer to discuss with reference to immigration? The Minister for Sport?
1) So those economic migrants that wait and come legally to USA or UK to work and change their lives----should have to wait behind those that come illegally?
You are mixing up asylum seekers/refugees and economic migrants

Do you agree with free movement of anyone into the UK? If not what restrictions would you put?

2) So until all this happens just let people in to blow up innocents?

3) Yes why Patel on this Forum seems to be singled out? Theresa May? was also Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith? (Oh dear! Patel is of legal migrant origin!)





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Old Jul 20th 2021, 6:57 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
3) Yes why Patel on this Forum seems to be singled out? Theresa May? was also Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith? (Oh dear! Patel is of legal migrant origin!)
And Theresa May has often been criticised retrospectively and 'currently' for her time as Home Sec. The 'Go Home' vans ring any bells?
I'm not sure the search function goes back far enough for Jacqui Smith's time
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 7:14 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) So those economic migrants that wait and come legally to USA or UK to work and change their lives----should have to wait behind those that come illegally?
You are mixing up asylum seekers/refugees and economic migrants

Do you agree with free movement of anyone into the UK? If not what restrictions would you put?

2) So until all this happens just let people in to blow up innocents?

3) Yes why Patel on this Forum seems to be singled out? Theresa May? was also Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith? (Oh dear! Patel is of legal migrant origin!)

I have neither the time nor the interest to address all these straw men and red herrings.

I suppose I could criticize every Home Secretary back to the dawn of time, but for some strange reason it seemed more relevant to criticize the one designing and implementing the policies I am also criticizing. You will have to excuse me for being rational and coherent.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jul 20th 2021 at 7:29 pm.
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 7:38 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I have neither the time nor the interest to address all these straw men and red herrings.

I suppose I could criticize every Home Secretary back to the dawn of time, but for some strange reason it seemed more relevant to criticize the one designing and implementing the policies I am also criticizing. You will have to excuse me for being rational and coherent.
I was replying to your posts!
I was asking why Patel keeps being complained about. (Not because she migrant origin ' Brown' )! Oh certainly not, that's the habit of other people you complain about!
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 8:31 pm
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Goodness me!

Really?

This place just gets weirder. There's always one to fill the vacuum left by another.
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 9:02 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post


Goodness me!

Really?

This place just gets weirder. There's always one to fill the vacuum left by another.

I'm a stranger here myself.

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Old Jul 20th 2021, 9:25 pm
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So some updated figures from the UNHCR and you can all decide where they go

Refugees under UNHCR mandate (registered with UNHCR) 20.7 million
Palestine Refugees under UNRWA's mandate 5.7 million
Internally Displaced Persons 48 million
Venezuelans displaced abroad 3.9 million
Asylum seekers 4.1 million

https://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html

Now if you want to know what pisses me off is when a person who has been granted asylum in countries like Sweden, The Netherlands, UK, Germany, Italy and the US then leaves that country and gets to Canada and then makes a claim for protection against one of these countries.
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 9:29 pm
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Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
So some updated figures from the UNHCR and you can all decide where they go

Refugees under UNHCR mandate (registered with UNHCR) 20.7 million
Palestine Refugees under UNRWA's mandate 5.7 million
Internally Displaced Persons 48 million
Venezuelans displaced abroad 3.9 million
Asylum seekers 4.1 million

https://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html

Now if you want to know what pisses me off is when a person who has been granted asylum in countries like Sweden, The Netherlands, UK, Germany, Italy and the US then leaves that country and gets to Canada and then makes a claim for protection against one of these countries.

If you don't like mosquitos, stop creating swamps. (Not you personally - "one".)

Nobody has ever succeeded in stopping our species from moving around in response to pressures - habitat, war, food, pestilence, etc. etc.. It's what has made us successful as a species. Many of those pressures are caused by the very places they are moving to.

And if you think it's bad now, wait until the environmental disaster we have caused bites ever harder. Never mind displacing people over oil, we will be displacing them over food and water.

Instead of demonizing people in a shit situation while continuing to cause the very situation they are leaving, we should address the causes. Apparently, we are not yet ready to do that but we will be forced to and probably sooner than people expect. Those pigeons will come home to roost. We are not insulated any more. I get that some people don't like it, but that protected lifestyle, protected from the consequences of our actions, is fast disappearing. The situation can no longer be contained, and the poor and miserable cannot be shut away in distant countries any more.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jul 20th 2021 at 9:32 pm.
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
If you don't like mosquitos, stop creating swamps. (Not you personally - "one".)

Nobody has ever succeeded in stopping our species from moving around in response to pressures - habitat, war, food, pestilence, etc. etc.. It's what has made us successful as a species. Many of those pressures are caused by the very places they are moving to.

And if you think it's bad now, wait until the environmental disaster we have caused bites ever harder. Never mind displacing people over oil, we will be displacing them over food and water.

Instead of demonizing people in a shit situation while continuing to cause the very situation they are leaving, we should address the causes. Apparently, we are not yet ready to do that but we will be forced to and probably sooner than people expect. Those pigeons will come home to roost. We are not insulated any more. I get that some people don't like it, but that protected lifestyle, protected from the consequences of our actions, is fast disappearing. The situation can no longer be contained, and the poor and miserable cannot be shut away in distant countries any more.

"Shit situation" in Sweden, Netherlands, UK, Germany, Italy USA? Distant countries? Only Canada is a 'good place'?
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Old Jul 20th 2021, 11:46 pm
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Default Re: Imagine it's you

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
"Shit situation" in Sweden, Netherlands, UK, Germany, Italy USA? Distant countries? Only Canada is a 'good place'?
Canada is just one good place. Of course it's so big and varied that it's many places, and it's many peoples now as well. I love the refugees because my mom's family were refugees 90 years ago (not sure what their designation was, but grandpa was going to be shot if he didn't run). Former Lancastrian tries to weed out the fakers and gets frustrated sometimes, but does a good job regardless. I didn't mention it last year for some reason, but I read the report and CBSA had a very good record of complaints versus solutions and given the volume of interactions, I consider it a stellar performance.
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