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illegal alien request child support from USC

illegal alien request child support from USC

Old Dec 9th 2003, 3:45 am
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Default illegal alien request child support from USC

My fiance (who I have petitioned to bring to the US) has a child that is a USC. The mother of the child is living here and working illegally. The child is a USC by birth when the mother was here illegally. Is it possible for her to request and win child support from us, once we are married, even though she is living here illegally?

Is it possible for us to file for custody of the child being that she has broken many US laws by living here illegally?
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 3:53 am
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by drama
My fiance (who I have petitioned to bring to the US) has a child that is a USC. The mother of the child is living here and working illegally. The child is a USC by birth when the mother was here illegally. Is it possible for her to request and win child support from us, once we are married, even though she is living here illegally?

Is it possible for us to file for custody of the child being that she has broken many US laws by living here illegally?

I'm not a lawyer but yes she can take you to court and win child support for a child you fathered and apparently abandoned. I say that because if she has to sue for child support than you ain't already paying it.

And yes you can sue for custody but because she is here illegally won't be the point that would you allow you to win it. Her being illegal does not in the eyes of the law make her an unfit mother.

Personally, just by you asking that question, I would see you as an unfit parent who is using a child as a pawn in a power game.

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 3:57 am
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by Rete
I'm not a lawyer but yes she can take you to court and win child support for a child you fathered and apparently abandoned. I say that because if she has to sue for child support than you ain't already paying it.

And yes you can sue for custody but because she is here illegally won't be the point that would you allow you to win it. Her being illegal does not in the eyes of the law make her an unfit mother.

Personally, just by you asking that question, I would see you as an unfit parent who is using a child as a pawn in a power game.

Rete
Actually, I am the USC asking the question. I will be the step mother, and I am currently sending the child money every month. I was asking because I am concerned about the situation. It is difficult enough as is paying for everything my fiance and I are doing right now to go through this process. I couldn't imagine what I would do having to support us as well as $1000 a month child support until he finds a job. I am okay with the mother having custody, but financially I have to be able to support my family, too. Thanks for the honest respone, though.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 5:37 am
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

drama wrote:
    > My fiance (who I have petitioned to bring to the US) has a child that is
    > a USC. The mother of the child is living here and working illegally.
    > The child is a USC by birth when the mother was here illegally. Is it
    > possible for her to request and win child support from us, once we are
    > married, even though she is living here illegally?
    >
    >
    >
    > Is it possible for us to file for custody of the child being that she
    > has broken many US laws by living here illegally?
    >

Child support is for the SUPPORT OF THE CHILD.
That status of the custodial parent is NOT the issue.

I assume the child is also living in the US.
And, if the father is going to live in the US, why do you want to make
it difficult for the child to live here.

To put it one way... His baggage becomes your baggage.
He should be looking for ways to PAY the child support, not looking for
ways to avoid paying it.
 
Old Dec 9th 2003, 5:39 am
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

drama wrote:

    > Actually, I am the USC asking the question. I will be the step mother,
    > and I am currently sending the child money every month. I was asking
    > because I am concerned about the situation. It is difficult enough as
    > is paying for everything my fiance and I are doing right now to go
    > through this process. I couldn't imagine what I would do having to
    > support us as well as $1000 a month child support until he finds a job.
    > I am okay with the mother having custody, but financially I have to be
    > able to support my family, too. Thanks for the honest respone, though.
    >

If child support needs to be paid, then I see no problem with the father
finding some kind of job, no matter what the wage to find a way to pay
it. Getting married is no excuse for him to avoid paying it.
Additionally, in some states, the child support obligation is based on
FAMILY income, I believe.
 
Old Dec 9th 2003, 5:52 am
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by drama
My fiance (who I have petitioned to bring to the US) has a child that is a USC. The mother of the child is living here and working illegally. The child is a USC by birth when the mother was here illegally. Is it possible for her to request and win child support from us, once we are married, even though she is living here illegally?

Is it possible for us to file for custody of the child being that she has broken many US laws by living here illegally?
Hi:

That is a question of state law. Talk to a family lawer. Also, child support is for the CHILD who happens to be a US citizen.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by drama
My fiance (who I have petitioned to bring to the US) has a child that is a USC. The mother of the child is living here and working illegally. The child is a USC by birth when the mother was here illegally. Is it possible for her to request and win child support from us, once we are married, even though she is living here illegally?

Is it possible for us to file for custody of the child being that she has broken many US laws by living here illegally?
I do not know the law in every state but I would find it highly improbable that the mother's immigration status has any bearing on the question of child support. The support is owed to the child, not the mother, even though she is the conduit through which it is collected and spent. The mother is completely irrelevant except to the degree that she factors into the math. I know in California if you try to raise this issue all you will get is a pissed off judge. On the question of custody, the outcome might well be the same, although you would have to consult with a family law attorney in your state to get a definitive answer. My gut says that the outcome will be the same, because many states have statutes making immigration status "off limits" as evidence in a civil proceeding that is unrelated to immigration.

It is difficult enough as is paying for everything my fiance and I are doing right now to go through this process.
This is the standard excuse. Carried to a rational instead of selfish conclusion, what inability to afford paying child support while also processing his immigration petition says is that perhaps you guys should defer marrying until he can fulfill his clear legal and moral duty to his kids. After all, he knew them before he knew you, and they didn't choose to be here. That was his choice, one he now has an absolute obligation to live up to. The fact that you are more concerned about ways to end his obligation than about the fact that *he* isn't living up to it and is using your money to get by speaks volumes.

I do wish parents would get straight once and for all who is entitled to support and stop trying using their relationship baggage as an excuse to starve their kids.

/sigh

Last edited by Dekka's Angel; Dec 9th 2003 at 2:08 pm.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

A thousand dollars a month child support is quite a lot! sounds like the mother is being supported also.


Originally posted by drama
Actually, I am the USC asking the question. I will be the step mother, and I am currently sending the child money every month. I was asking because I am concerned about the situation. It is difficult enough as is paying for everything my fiance and I are doing right now to go through this process. I couldn't imagine what I would do having to support us as well as $1000 a month child support until he finds a job. I am okay with the mother having custody, but financially I have to be able to support my family, too. Thanks for the honest respone, though.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by lpdiver
A thousand dollars a month child support is quite a lot! sounds like the mother is being supported also.
Child support is based on a formula that takes into the disposable income (this term is defined by statutes in every state, mathematically) of *both* parents.

If a child gets 1K child support, it is because the math worked out that way. A child is, statutorily, entitled to the best standard of living that *both* parents can provide with their disposable income based on the formula. And statutorially entitled to maintain the standard of living they enjoyed when the parents were still a couple, if the child support formula says that it can still be provided. Period.

So if the parents together makes $25,000, the child might get only $250 a month as support because there is only a little disposable income. But at $250,000, that same child would see maybe $5,000, rather than the $2,500 that pure ratios would dictate. Because a higher percentage of the parents' cumulative income is disposable.

The bottom line, however, is that the $1K/month award was made based on what the non-custodial could afford to pay based on the numbers he and his ex- put before the Court, plugged into the formula. If his circumstances have changed he has an easy remedy -- prove to a Court that he really can't afford it now, and the support order *will* be reduced. But his or anyone else's personal opinions about what is or is not "a lot" of child support are irrelevant.

This is as it should be.

As far as the "mother being supported", this is also one of those oldies but goodies used by resentful support payers, who let their relationship baggage get in the way of understanding why the system is designed as it is -- to benefit the child first and foremost.

Of course the custodial parent is being "supported" in a technical sense. The money received for the child frees up some of that parent's own money for him or herself. That's as it should be, too. But folks throw this one around as if somehow the fact that the custodial parent might get to live in a nicer neighborhood with the kids (they can't live by themselves), or get an extra movie or dinner out a month or a vacation (since after all someone has to take the kids) means that the kid doesn't "need" the money and the support is "too high". Firm notions of what a child "needs" deprive children of parents who can afford to provide an excellent life style for them, and deprives children or poor parents too when folks start whining about what they can "afford". This is why the system rejects these types of ideas and sticks to a very hard and fast formula (absent some rare circumstances which aren't evident in the OP's facts).
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 3:59 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

I would not think that the fiancees income is factored into this formula at all. She is paying the legal fees and the "child" support. I commend her for doing so. however it seems pretty apparent that high income has not determined the level of support but compassion. It is a good thing...probably.


Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
Child support is based on a formula that takes into the disposable income (this term is defined by statutes in every state, mathematically) of *both* parents.

If a child gets 1K child support, it is because the math worked out that way. A child is, statutorily, entitled to the best standard of living that *both* parents can provide with their disposable income based on the formula. And statutorially entitled to maintain the standard of living they enjoyed when the parents were still a couple, if the child support formula says that it can still be provided. Period.

So if the parents together makes $25,000, the child might get only $250 a month as support because there is only a little disposable income. But at $250,000, that same child would see maybe $5,000, rather than the $2,500 that pure ratios would dictate. Because a higher percentage of the parents' cumulative income is disposable.

The bottom line, however, is that the $1K/month award was made based on what the non-custodial could afford to pay based on the numbers he and his ex- put before the Court, plugged into the formula. If his circumstances have changed he has an easy remedy -- prove to a Court that he really can't afford it now, and the support order *will* be reduced. But his or anyone else's personal opinions about what is or is not "a lot" of child support are irrelevant.

This is as it should be.

As far as the "mother being supported", this is also one of those oldies but goodies used by resentful support payers, who let their relationship baggage get in the way of understanding why the system is designed as it is -- to benefit the child first and foremost.

Of course the custodial parent is being "supported" in a technical sense. The money received for the child frees up some of that parent's own money for him or herself. That's as it should be, too. But folks throw this one around as if somehow the fact that the custodial parent might get to live in a nicer neighborhood with the kids (they can't live by themselves), or get an extra movie or dinner out a month or a vacation (since after all someone has to take the kids) means that the kid doesn't "need" the money and the support is "too high". Firm notions of what a child "needs" deprive children of parents who can afford to provide an excellent life style for them, and deprives children or poor parents too when folks start whining about what they can "afford". This is why the system rejects these types of ideas and sticks to a very hard and fast formula (absent some rare circumstances which aren't evident in the OP's facts).
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 4:08 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by lpdiver
I would not think that the fiancees income is factored into this formula at all. She is paying the legal fees and the "child" support. I commend her for doing so. however it seems pretty apparent that high income has not determined the level of support but compassion. It is a good thing...probably.
The fiance's income hasn't been factored into any of this, and no court in the world would do so because she is not his wife yet and therefore has no legal obligation to contribute. She is voluntarily choosing to prop up her man by paying his child support obligation for him. No court ordered her to do so.

That speaks volumes to me, about her and him. Yes I think her compassion is to be commended -- but it's clear that it is a contextual compassion, since she's here looking for ways to get out of paying it while still keeping her man on track to immigrate, a far lesser priority than him getting a job and supporting his kids. The situation speaks even louder volumes about him, especially since he has put his fiancee in this position rather than step up to the plate and do the right thing on his own. But I'm not the one marrying him -- thank God.

(If she marries him that's a different kettle of fish. Mr. Travel said it best - his obligations become hers, for better or for worse. And at that point she needs to check state law because there is some variation. Most states will consider the complete marital household income, including hers, in calculating his disposable income (and thus fixing his child support obligation). Some will count only a portion of her income, some will exclude hers entirely.

No matter how calculated, however, the number is mathematically supported and in the best interests of the child.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Believe me I am very familar with child support. My wife refuses to support her daughter at all. I am torn between just taking sole custody and denying all contact to having her thrown in debtors prison as non payment of child support is the only debtors prison remaining in my state. basically I cannot sign away my daughters rights to child support but it is upm to me to prosecute for lack of payment.


Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
The fiance's income hasn't been factored into any of this, and no court in the world would do so because she is not his wife yet and therefore has no legal obligation to contribute. She is voluntarily choosing to prop up her man by paying his child support obligation for him. No court ordered her to do so.

That speaks volumes to me, about her and him. Yes I think her compassion is to be commended -- but it's clear that it is a contextual compassion, since she's here looking for ways to get out of paying it while still keeping her man on track to immigrate, a far lesser priority than him getting a job and supporting his kids. The situation speaks even louder volumes about him, especially since he has put his fiancee in this position rather than step up to the plate and do the right thing on his own. But I'm not the one marrying him -- thank God.

(If she marries him that's a different kettle of fish. Mr. Travel said it best - his obligations become hers, for better or for worse. And at that point she needs to check state law because there is some variation. Most states will consider the complete marital household income, including hers, in calculating his disposable income (and thus fixing his child support obligation). Some will count only a portion of her income, some will exclude hers entirely.

No matter how calculated, however, the number is mathematically supported and in the best interests of the child.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 4:46 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Dekka's Angel wrote:

    > I do not know the law in every state but I would find it highly
    > improbable that the mother's immigration status has any bearing on the
    > question of child support. The support is owed to the child, not the
    > mother, even though she is the conduit through which it is collected
    > and spent. The mother is completely irrelevant except to the degree
    > that she factors into the math. I know in California if you try to
    > raise this issue all you will get is a pissed off judge. On the
    > question of custody, the outcome might well be the same, although you
    > would have to consult with a family law attorney in your state to get
    > a definitive answer. My gut says that the outcome will be the same,
    > because many states have statutes making immigration status "off
    > limits" as evidence in a civil proceeding that is unrelated to
    > immigration.

Even if the immigration status is highly like to cause the mother to be
"detained" and removed? For example, let's assume this mother has broken
laws" bank robber, drugs, prostitution, etc. Could that not cause the
mother to be put in to prison and/or deported? Shouldn't the court
consider this and perhaps award custody to the father? Or is it in the
best interests of the child to have his mother locked in prison and put
into a foster home while the father is forced to pay child support to
the mother in prison!?!
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 4:49 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by lpdiver
Believe me I am very familar with child support. My wife refuses to support her daughter at all. I am torn between just taking sole custody and denying all contact to having her thrown in debtors prison as non payment of child support is the only debtors prison remaining in my state. basically I cannot sign away my daughters rights to child support but it is upm to me to prosecute for lack of payment.
I am not sending $1000 a month at this point. Perhaps I should have said we are sending 1/2 of my fiance's monthly salary at this point - which isn't very much because because he is living in a third world country. So, yes he is paying child support, but 1/2 of his monthly salary doesn't amount to much for a single mother of 2 children (one of which is my fiance's child) that is living in Santa Barbara, CA (one of the most expensive places to live in the US). I say that I am paying the child support because even though my fiance is sending 1/2 of his monthly salary to the child I still have to give my fiance more than that to support him while we wait.

I merely asked the question as a forum for advice and what to do in the time between when my fiance arrives in the US and the time when he secures a decent job. Neither he nor I are opposed to paying child support for his child. I was just wondering if I was on the hook legally, once he and I are married, to turn over the child support she might request.

A prior boyfriend of mine paid $1100 a month for his child support, and he did not make that much more money than myself. Neither of us are trying to get out of his responsibility to support his child. My question was legally, for what could they hold ME accountable.

As soon as my fiance obtains a job here in the US he will be sending more money to the child than he is sending now, and hopefully it will not be 1/2 of his monthly salary.

However, it does disgust me that an illegal alien can come into the US for the purpose of having a child here. Then, she can request a US sum of child support to pay for that child from someone that isn't even legally able to work here.

From what others have posted on my topic it does seem that the government can take into account his salary at the time of the child support request. Hopefully everything will remain smooth with the mother as it is now. She will see that he is supporting her with all that he can right now. Hopefully she will continue to be patient as we finish the immigration process and until he is legally able to work in the US.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 4:58 pm
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Default Re: illegal alien request child support from USC

Originally posted by lpdiver
Believe me I am very familar with child support. My wife refuses to support her daughter at all. I am torn between just taking sole custody and denying all contact to having her thrown in debtors prison as non payment of child support is the only debtors prison remaining in my state. basically I cannot sign away my daughters rights to child support but it is upm to me to prosecute for lack of payment.
I seem to remember that keeping that obligation on file without enforcement allows the child to file for the accrued amount after they turn 18? That probably varies by state, though.
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