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George Floyd

George Floyd

Old Jun 1st 2020, 9:26 am
  #46  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Kooky. View Post
Well AFAIK only one officer has been arrested and the charges are not adequate.

I can only speak for the Seattle events but I watched an activist's live feed for most of the protest, and the majority of protestors were peaceful and respectful. The protests were derailed by people who would find any protest going, to take advantage of. They don't care about George Floyd and they did harm to the whole Black Lives Matter movement. Today Seattle is a mess - this taken from my bedroom window last night about the time virtually every store in the shopping district was being looted, which was still going on when we went to bed at 1.30am - but a lot of good people are out there cleaning up. I hope that's not in vain.
Well, exactly.

If you want some interesting reading go look at the protests in the 1960s. The organisers required everyone to wear suits and ties as they understood the power of television, and you weren't allowed anywhere near a protest if you didn't comply. This way on TV there were police confronting what look like ordinary respectable people. it's much easier for someone watching at home on TV, to be dismissive, if people show up to a protest in a vagina hat, beer in hand, looking like they are at the world's biggest block party.

Yes bad eggs will show up and get violent and loot, and play right into Trump's hands, though they do not care about that either.

I do not know the Minnesota police policy but if a civilian had kneeled on someone's neck for 8 minutes and then there was a death, there would have been an immediate arrest. The police had been called because the victim had been accused by a shopkeeper of passing a counterfeit $20 note. Not because of a murder or an assault.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 9:33 am
  #47  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
According to US national security advisor Robert O'Brien there's no systemic racism in the US, it doesn't exist. So that's ok then.

ps sorry I can't provide a link, it was reported in the Guardian's live feed about an hour ago, the item quoted O'Brien directly from an interview he did with CNN.
Not having a go at you when I say this, but to get the general gist, I hope you don't think Australia is able to look at this from afar and just tsk tsk.

This country is a tinder box itself. Just go speak to any Aboriginal group. The same thing could happen here, at any time. I am in fact surprised it hasn't already, and I was disappointed to hear Mark McGowan's rather smug and de facto effective "that can't happen here" comments on the radio this afternoon.

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Old Jun 1st 2020, 9:34 am
  #48  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
That's so dry

I notice the Vans shop in the LA Times article didn't fare so well.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 9:42 am
  #49  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Not having a go at you when I say this, but to get the general gist, I hope you don't think Australia is able to look at this from afar and just tsk tsk.

This country is a tinder box itself. Just go speak to any Aboriginal group. The same thing could happen here, at any time. I am in fact surprised it hasn't already, and I was disappointed to hear Mark McGowan's rather smug and de facto effective "that can't happen here" comments on the radio this afternoon.
I know you're not having a go at me. I fully agree with all of that, my first husband was Aboriginal and my adult children have felt the sting of prejudice and discrimination, although not anywhere near as badly as many because of their mixed Noongar/Wadjella heritage.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:00 pm
  #50  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
This.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:06 pm
  #51  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

So I gather from some posters on this thread that:

1. There isn't a problem with racism against black people in the US
2. There is a problem, but black people aren't handling it the way these posters think they should
3. The cause of the problem (the one that doesn't exist as per #1) is the rioters and looters
4. There is a problem, but the problem is actually the behaviour of black people towards white people
5. There isn't a problem, it's only a few bad eggs
6. Black people don't care about what happens to other black people in non-police-violence situations
7. The real problem is black people killing white people
8. Black people are lazy people who only want sports shoes
9. Return to #1 and repeat the list


I may have missed one, apologies, it's still early here.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jun 1st 2020 at 12:10 pm.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:06 pm
  #52  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
This.
Yup.

We are living it and the issues are absolutely not confined to race.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:22 pm
  #53  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

This is in New Zealand.

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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:25 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

This is in Minneapolis.

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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:27 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Flint, Michigan

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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:40 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

New Jersey



Spokane




Des Moines




Battles aren't inevitable.

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Old Jun 1st 2020, 12:49 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
So I gather from some posters on this thread that:

1. There isn't a problem with racism against black people in the US
2. There is a problem, but black people aren't handling it the way these posters think they should
3. The cause of the problem (the one that doesn't exist as per #1) is the rioters and looters
4. There is a problem, but the problem is actually the behaviour of black people towards white people
5. There isn't a problem, it's only a few bad eggs
6. Black people don't care about what happens to other black people in non-police-violence situations
7. The real problem is black people killing white people
8. Black people are lazy people who only want sports shoes
9. Return to #1 and repeat the list


I may have missed one, apologies, it's still early here.
I've read this thread three times and cannot find anything about sports shoes, Black people being lazy, "there isn't a problem," "rioters and looters are the problem," "there isn't a problem except for a few bad eggs" etc. In fact the direction of the thread seems the exact opposite. Are you sure you are actually reading this thread, and not just seeing what you want to see?

Can you please use the quote function and highlight where these statements and sentiments are? Entirely possible I missed it. I would like to find out who said the thing about sports shoes, laziness, there are only problems when black people killed white people or who said there weren't any problems.

Cape Blue and Paulry don't count.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 1:00 pm
  #58  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
My opinions on this:

1. F%$^ these looters and arsonists. Seriously, f#$% off. You are the problem. You want to neatly undercut the viable reasons for the protest? You want to strengthen the hand of your opponents? This is how you do it.

2. Systemic racism exists, but it's only one problem with American police. In fact I would argue racism is not nearly as big a problem as the militarization of police and the general asshole-ness of police. Every interaction I've ever had with the police has been unnecessarily confrontational and insulting. Police have consistently sought to escalate situations I've been involved in, not diffuse them. If you say anything to the police, I guarantee it will be used in the worst possible way against you. Police seem more concerned with ensuring that they have infuriating schoolyard bully power over you than with justice, protection and service (ha). As I'm a white guy, I think this goes deeper than racism. Police hiring and training needs revolutionary reform. The police need to earn respect, they can't just take it for granted. I'm sure policemen and policewomen have their side of the story, I can only report on my experience.

3. It's hard for me to take BLM supporters and leaders seriously when they are silent on cataclysmic violent crime rates in the black community. Deafeningly silent. People saying these are unrelated issues are being willfully obtuse. The ridiculously high violent crime rates in black neighborhoods and police brutality in black neighborhoods are related issues. I also don't buy that black crime is an outcome of white racism. People are responsible for their own actions. Note: this of course does not excuse Floyd's murder and does not mean that the anger over Floyd's murder isn't justified.

4. Similarly, it's irritating to me that the murder of Ahmaud Arbery was uproarious front page news for weeks while no one in the press mentioned that over double the number of white people are killed by black people every year. This is made even worse when you realize that there are 5x as many white people as black people in the US making the rate of black Americans killing white Americans far, far higher than the reverse. This seems like relevant context to provide, but it undercuts the narrative that white racists killing black men is a supposedly a huge issue in the US and is therefore ignored. Note that both are very rare when compared to intra-race murder, another extremely relevant fact. This all makes me distrust press coverage of the issue and roll my eyes at the resulting fury. Perhaps racism was a factor in Arbery's killing, but murder is murder.
Originally Posted by paulry View Post


Well said on all points.

No doubt the usual bunch will have nothing useful to say in response to the inconvenient truths that you've written above. Such behavior on a nationwide scale results in the correct lessons not being learned and subsequent wrong or inadequate remedies being delivered. Meanwhile, we'll continue to bear witness to yet more depressingly-sad events such as the one that callously robbed George Floyd of his life.
Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Well, exactly.

If you want some interesting reading go look at the protests in the 1960s. The organisers required everyone to wear suits and ties as they understood the power of television, and you weren't allowed anywhere near a protest if you didn't comply. This way on TV there were police confronting what look like ordinary respectable people. it's much easier for someone watching at home on TV, to be dismissive, if people show up to a protest in a vagina hat, beer in hand, looking like they are at the world's biggest block party.

Yes bad eggs will show up and get violent and loot, and play right into Trump's hands, though they do not care about that either.

I do not know the Minnesota police policy but if a civilian had kneeled on someone's neck for 8 minutes and then there was a death, there would have been an immediate arrest. The police had been called because the victim had been accused by a shopkeeper of passing a counterfeit $20 note. Not because of a murder or an assault.
Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
That's so dry

I notice the Vans shop in the LA Times article didn't fare so well.
Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
I've read this thread three times and cannot find anything about sports shoes, Black people being lazy, "there isn't a problem," "rioters and looters are the problem," "there isn't a problem except for a few bad eggs" etc. In fact the direction of the thread seems the exact opposite. Are you sure you are actually reading this thread, and not just seeing what you want to see?

Can you please use the quote function and highlight where these statements and sentiments are? Entirely possible I missed it. I would like to find out who said the thing about sports shoes, laziness, there are only problems when black people killed white people or who said there weren't any problems.

Cape Blue and Paulry don't count.

It's a bit tricky, especially give your last condition of who doesn't count since quite a few have been deleted by The Boss. But some are left that you can reread.

Edit to add: My point being that there is a wave of contradictory and/or unsupported statements up thread, many of them simply betraying what certain posters who don't count want to be true.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jun 1st 2020 at 1:05 pm.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 1:08 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
So I gather from some posters on this thread that:

1. There isn't a problem with racism against black people in the US
2. There is a problem, but black people aren't handling it the way these posters think they should
3. The cause of the problem (the one that doesn't exist as per #1) is the rioters and looters
4. There is a problem, but the problem is actually the behaviour of black people towards white people
5. There isn't a problem, it's only a few bad eggs
6. Black people don't care about what happens to other black people in non-police-violence situations
7. The real problem is black people killing white people
8. Black people are lazy people who only want sports shoes
9. Return to #1 and repeat the list


I may have missed one, apologies, it's still early here.
Lazy AF, Lion. Try harder.
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Old Jun 1st 2020, 1:09 pm
  #60  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Lazy AF, Lion. Try harder.
Sorry, but I think that's all the effort it deserves really.

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