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Enter the Wokeness

Enter the Wokeness

Old Jul 22nd 2020, 8:36 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I got this far.
It's further than me. Anyone complaining about "anti-Christian" has lost me. I think that there are some valid criticisms of "woke" politics, but unfortunately many right wing populist blowhards have appropriated the argument (including the Big Orange himself) and that makes discourse less rather than more likely.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 8:38 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
It's further than me. Anyone complaining about "anti-Christian" has lost me. I think that there are some valid criticisms of "woke" politics, but unfortunately many right wing populist blowhards have appropriated the argument (including the Big Orange himself) and that makes discourse less rather than more likely.
The idea that my son has been turned into a sort of marxist anti-christ by his US high school education is a bit, well, laughable. So I laughed.

I may have also fast forwarded a bit to get to that screen.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 8:41 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

I'm not sure that this one is making the point they hoped to make...


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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 8:49 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Slides!

With numbers!

That's more like it. Can the rest of you just stop typing paragraphs of dense text. It all looks the same to me.

I want pictures. I want videos. I want simplicity.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 8:55 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
The idea that my son has been turned into a sort of marxist anti-christ by his US high school education is a bit, well, laughable. So I laughed.

I may have also fast forwarded a bit to get to that screen.
I guess this the problem with social media, the message has to be extreme/controversial to get attention, and so facts are the collateral damage. A parallel problem is that many of the YouTube personalities are not necessarily educated in the topics they promote, and therefore over-simplify and generate false narrative.

I haven't heard much on US schools, but on US universities there appears to be an issue with critical thinking exemplified by the growing cancel culture and assertion of dogma over discussion. Steven Pinker makes this point in the video I posted upthread.





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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 8:56 pm
  #66  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
What kind of stuff are these two talking about?
They're discussing the stuff that gets taught in schools, history, English etc taught with Marxist leanings, white privilege, lowering of standards, different teachings and expectations of students dependent on their racial backgrounds. It all explains very well the rise of marxist ANTIFA, BLM, pulling down of statues, burning of flags.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 8:57 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Slides!

With numbers!

That's more like it. Can the rest of you just stop typing paragraphs of dense text. It all looks the same to me.

I want pictures. I want videos. I want simplicity.
Post #53 might be up your alley.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:00 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I guess this the problem with social media, the message has to be extreme/controversial to get attention, and so facts are the collateral damage. A parallel problem is that many of the YouTube personalities are not necessarily educated in the topics they promote, and therefore over-simplify and generate false narrative.

I haven't heard much on US schools, but on US universities there appears to be an issue with critical thinking exemplified by the growing cancel culture and assertion of dogma over discussion. Steven Pinker makes this point in the video I posted upthread.
Uni students are definitely very fertile subjects for extremist views, and it's probably because it starts at school.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:02 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
They're discussing the stuff that gets taught in schools, history, English etc taught with Marxist leanings, white privilege, lowering of standards, different teachings and expectations of students dependent on their racial backgrounds. It all explains very well the rise of marxist ANTIFA, BLM, pulling down of statues, burning of flags.
Thanks for the TLDR. TLDW more precisely ! I don't think indoctrinating students on white privilege is a fruitful idea, it's divisive, and not the way to resolve the historical imbalance.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:04 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

How privileged are you?


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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:07 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I guess this the problem with social media, the message has to be extreme/controversial to get attention, and so facts are the collateral damage. A parallel problem is that many of the YouTube personalities are not necessarily educated in the topics they promote, and therefore over-simplify and generate false narrative.

I haven't heard much on US schools, but on US universities there appears to be an issue with critical thinking exemplified by the growing cancel culture and assertion of dogma over discussion. Steven Pinker makes this point in the video I posted upthread.

There are plenty of informative, considered and intelligent articles and essays to read out there. We really don't need the shouty videos with the scaremongering tactics. Serious people aren't going to be paying attention to them.

And anyone who thinks you can push students around with dogma has never spent much time around adolescents, let alone tried to teach them anything. During my son's four years in a US high school he was asked to consider various points of view, backed up by various readings and discussion. Amazingly, they also talk to each other and participate in every other aspect of culture, think for themselves and have discussion at home and elsewhere. Why people think that they are "brainwashed" by a handful of teachers is beyond me. As far as I can tell, the only brainwashed are those consuming these frantic youtube videos and taking them at face value.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:13 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Full on indoctrination


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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:16 pm
  #73  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Full on indoctrination



I should turn it off then if I were you, then you'll be safe.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:28 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by doesnt really matter View Post
They're discussing the stuff that gets taught in schools, history, English etc taught with Marxist leanings, white privilege, lowering of standards, different teachings and expectations of students dependent on their racial backgrounds. It all explains very well the rise of marxist ANTIFA, BLM, pulling down of statues, burning of flags.
A someone who teachers in a US school, this might be worth reviewing for third party observers.
Nothing in US schools is Marxist. The history teaching is not Marxist. So we should consider what the right identify as Marxist.
Is history taught from a Dialectical Materialist perspective? Absolutely not. Is the American Revolution taught as a Bourgeoisie Revolution? Absolutely not.
Does American history now get taught as a system involving loss and gain by various groups? yes it does (not two or three groups based on class), how else do the right actually think it should be taught? The traditional way of gain only and the losers, if mentioned, are deserved. Class and economic disparity might get a mention, but reflecting American culture it is still close to taboo. American definitions of class are still routinely used, and neither students nor staff have an understanding on how class is defined in Marxist terms. The working class are still considered by almost everyone as being Middle Class. Almost everyone identifies as Middle Class. Class is still an unknown political concept to most Americans in school or outside of school.
There is absolute no lowering of standards, everything is about raising standards and expectations, there is an acknowledgment of disparity in how discipline was enforced and on how expectations for different groups were, well different, everything now is about highering academic expectations. for all students.Standards based grading (the emerging standard way to assess in US schools) is a tool in ensuring that students are assessed on accomplishment and not on teacher prejudice.
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Old Jul 22nd 2020, 9:28 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
There are plenty of informative, considered and intelligent articles and essays to read out there. We really don't need the shouty videos with the scaremongering tactics. Serious people aren't going to be paying attention to them.

And anyone who thinks you can push students around with dogma has never spent much time around adolescents, let alone tried to teach them anything. During my son's four years in a US high school he was asked to consider various points of view, backed up by various readings and discussion. Amazingly, they also talk to each other and participate in every other aspect of culture, think for themselves and have discussion at home and elsewhere. Why people think that they are "brainwashed" by a handful of teachers is beyond me. As far as I can tell, the only brainwashed are those consuming these frantic youtube videos and taking them at face value.
I don't think it's quite that straight forward. Readings and discussions from "various points of view" can in reality be one sided and prone to manipulation. That's exactly the issue that is being raised here with cancel culture. Did you follow the issue a year ago regarding Brett Weinstein at Evergreen State College? Students acting in that dogmatic and vindictive pattern are the evidence that there is problem within the system. The fact that there are many serious academics commenting on this phenomena suggests it is not just the fantasy of YouTube blowhards.


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