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Derek Chauvin trial

Derek Chauvin trial

Old Apr 4th 2021, 11:04 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
If the police encounter a suspect who they know has multiple violent crime convictions including armed violent crime convictions, it seems likely the the arresting police will treat that suspect differently than someone who has no violent crime convictions in their past.
The police call was for a misdemeanor offence. The name of the suspect, and therefore his prior criminal history, would unlikely to have been known at that time. Unless there's a credible source that confirms the opposite.

This becomes even more likely when the suspect is resisting arrest and clearly intoxicated.
Is that any excuse for kneeling on a man's neck for 9+ minutes?

Floyd's past may be inadmissible in court, but it's relevant to what happened that day. I have no idea if the police knew about Floyd's past, but it certainly seems likely.
The only thing relevant should be, did Floyd's actions at the time, such as refusal to get in the Police vehicle, deserve to result in his death? His previous convictions were dealt with and punished in accordance with the law.

Also, in my opinion, the media skating over Floyd's fairly horrible past because it complicates the story is yet another example of why lots of people don't like the media.
Floyd may have been an asshole, but he did not deserve to die for his actions of that day.

Just to clarify my perspective on this: I believe Chauvin should be convicted of a crime. We can't live in a country where police kneel on people's necks for ten minutes. I also think it's going to be fairly difficult to convict Chauvin.
The system needs to be seen to be working. He committed manslaughter, the evidence of him doing so is clear, and he should expect jail time. And because he was an experienced Police officer who should have known what the risks were, that should be a factor in sentencing. But he'll never serve time in gen pop, because there'll be too many people inside who will see him as a good guy, and others who'll want to teach him a lesson.

But on the evidence, he shouldn't get off scot-free...
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Old Apr 5th 2021, 9:21 am
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
If the police encounter a suspect who they know has multiple violent crime convictions including armed violent crime convictions, it seems likely the the arresting police will treat that suspect differently than someone who has no violent crime convictions in their past.
- So you killed the suspect?
- Yes.
- Why?
- Well, thirteen years ago...
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Old Apr 5th 2021, 8:48 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Minneapolis Police Chief testified today.


"In particular, the chief said Chauvin's kneeling on Floyd's neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds is not a trained tactic and was a violation of the policies around de-escalation, objectively reasonable use of force and requirement to render aid."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/05/us/de...y-6/index.html


When the defense has their turn, will be interesting to see who they bring to the stand and how that plays out.


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Old Apr 5th 2021, 9:13 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
If the police encounter a suspect who they know has multiple violent crime convictions including armed violent crime convictions, it seems likely the the arresting police will treat that suspect differently than someone who has no violent crime convictions in their past. This becomes even more likely when the suspect is resisting arrest and clearly intoxicated. Floyd's past may be inadmissible in court, but it's relevant to what happened that day. I have no idea if the police knew about Floyd's past, but it certainly seems likely. Also, in my opinion, the media skating over Floyd's fairly horrible past because it complicates the story is yet another example of why lots of people don't like the media.

Just to clarify my perspective on this: I believe Chauvin should be convicted of a crime. We can't live in a country where police kneel on people's necks for ten minutes. I also think it's going to be fairly difficult to convict Chauvin.
If the police are called out to a complaint about a known violent offender then they will probably call for extra backup which may explain why there were so many cops there for a $20 misdemeanor.

Mr. Floyd is not on trial here. In most cases, his past criminal history wouldn't even be admissible because it is too prejudicial. I'm sure Chauvin's lawyers argued (as you did above) admissibility based on their argument that Chauvin was in fear for his life and therefore used deadly force. Thank God there is so much video footage otherwise the cops would be able to (as they have in the past) paint Floyd as a wild and terrifying beast with superhuman strength who could only be stopped with deadly force.

My comment about Mr. Floyd's criminal past refers to the fact that it is irrelevant to the jury deliberations. I'm not sure why you have a personal need to have people to judge Floyd based on his "fairly horrible past" when it is so completely irrelevant to whether cops should be allowed to commit murder.
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Old Apr 5th 2021, 9:48 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
If the police are called out to a complaint about a known violent offender then they will probably call for extra backup which may explain why there were so many cops there for a $20 misdemeanor.

Mr. Floyd is not on trial here. In most cases, his past criminal history wouldn't even be admissible because it is too prejudicial. I'm sure Chauvin's lawyers argued (as you did above) admissibility based on their argument that Chauvin was in fear for his life and therefore used deadly force. Thank God there is so much video footage otherwise the cops would be able to (as they have in the past) paint Floyd as a wild and terrifying beast with superhuman strength who could only be stopped with deadly force.

My comment about Mr. Floyd's criminal past refers to the fact that it is irrelevant to the jury deliberations. I'm not sure why you have a personal need to have people to judge Floyd based on his "fairly horrible past" when it is so completely irrelevant to whether cops should be allowed to commit murder.
One objectionable element of the post to which you are commenting about, is that the poster acknowledges that it is irrelevant to the guilt of the accused, but they felt the need to state it anyway. "A have your cake" argument, getting in an objectionable claim, whilst holding their hands in the air stating, "oh, no, not me, I would never do that thing, (which you have just seen me do)"
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Old Apr 5th 2021, 9:49 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

I am surprised that police even responded to the call if it was just called in as a counterfeit small bill at a corner store.

Seems something police wouldn't bother responding to, but take a report and follow up later possibly, not send officers out.
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Old Apr 5th 2021, 11:01 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I am surprised that police even responded to the call if it was just called in as a counterfeit small bill at a corner store.
Seems something police wouldn't bother responding to, but take a report and follow up later possibly, not send officers out.
I'm stretching a point here as it's probably nothing to do with this instance, but having forged notes in circulation plays havoc with the crime figures because each note found forms the basis of a complaint.

In this case I'm not aware of any suggestion that Floyd created the bill in the first place and now that he's dead we'll never get to know where he got it from. The issue of where the note came from hasn't been mentioned, has it? Anybody know?

It's also been suggested that forged money contributes more to the economy than legal currency because once you find you have an example you go out and spend it as quickly as possible. ie an example circulates through the community much more rapidly than standard currency..... perhaps we should revert to using beads.

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Old Apr 6th 2021, 8:27 am
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
In this case I'm not aware of any suggestion that Floyd created the bill in the first place and now that he's dead we'll never get to know where he got it from. The issue of where the note came from hasn't been mentioned, has it? Anybody know?
My understanding of the evidence given by the lad working in the store was that Floyd and his friend had tried (unsuccessfully) to pass a (the?) counterfeit bill earlier in the day - and then the pair of them had then returned later, and this time Floyd passed over a (the?) counterfeit bill.

I emphasise that is just my understanding - I may have got it wrong.
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Old Apr 6th 2021, 1:47 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
One objectionable element of the post to which you are commenting about, is that the poster acknowledges that it is irrelevant to the guilt of the accused, but they felt the need to state it anyway. "A have your cake" argument, getting in an objectionable claim, whilst holding their hands in the air stating, "oh, no, not me, I would never do that thing, (which you have just seen me do)"
I wish I could just brush it off as persistent desperation but it's unfortunately quite effective writ large.
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Old Apr 6th 2021, 3:58 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I am surprised that police even responded to the call if it was just called in as a counterfeit small bill at a corner store.

Seems something police wouldn't bother responding to, but take a report and follow up later possibly, not send officers out.
Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
I'm stretching a point here as it's probably nothing to do with this instance, but having forged notes in circulation plays havoc with the crime figures because each note found forms the basis of a complaint.

In this case I'm not aware of any suggestion that Floyd created the bill in the first place and now that he's dead we'll never get to know where he got it from. The issue of where the note came from hasn't been mentioned, has it? Anybody know?

It's also been suggested that forged money contributes more to the economy than legal currency because once you find you have an example you go out and spend it as quickly as possible. ie an example circulates through the community much more rapidly than standard currency..... perhaps we should revert to using beads.
Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
My understanding of the evidence given by the lad working in the store was that Floyd and his friend had tried (unsuccessfully) to pass a (the?) counterfeit bill earlier in the day - and then the pair of them had then returned later, and this time Floyd passed over a (the?) counterfeit bill.

I emphasise that is just my understanding - I may have got it wrong.
I agree, there are a lot of things we may never learn from the trial, due to admissibility, but that doesn't mean that we'll never know. Perhaps things will make more sense later.

In general, the police may have had a BOLO on a team (matching this description) who were passing counterfeit $20s in the area. Which could have put more urgency on the call.

Once the police arrived they could easily have done a background check from the car registration or once they determined Floyd's identity. And, yes, it would have been easy for them to retrieve his criminal record and/or outstanding warrants, probably not a whole lot of specific details that quickly though.

Also, if you've ever had the misfortune of having to call 911 in a violent or dangerous situation, one of the first questions is if the suspect is still on the scene. That makes a HUGE difference as to whether they just take a report over the phone or maybe send someone later. In the case of counterfeit bills, they would have to send somebody eventually to take the $20 into evidence but since Floyd was still hanging around, they got there quickly.

Somewhere, upthread, it was mentioned that he was in the police car and then out of the car and the doors were left wide open. I haven't been able to watch most of the trial (even though I did watch quite a bit of yesterday's testimony) but my thoughts went to the possibility that the police could have feared that Floyd (if he did indeed resist arrest) was possibly strong enough to kick out the windows and/or the partition between the front and back seats. It's conceivable that getting him out onto the sidewalk and calling for a wagon would have been a reasonable decision.

I feel bad for the kid that accepted the $20. He was obviously backed into a corner. Call the cops or pay the $20.00? What doesn't really make sense to me is --- did he actually think that calling the police would get him the $20 back? The police weren't going to march Floyd back in the store to reimburse the $20, that just wasn't going to happen. They weren't there to arbitrate a civil dispute. In my mind, the kid probably felt awkward/intimidated with the prospect of having to stand up to these older more experienced males. From his point of view, and he's not wrong, he was most likely just fed up and wanted the authorities to deal with the problem. The store management, instead of garnishing wages, should have been the one dealing with Floyd. That's all just background noise though because none of the responsibility lies with the person who called the police.
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Old Yesterday, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

The defence lawyer Eric Nelson seems like a nice guy, but not the most aggressive defence lawyer around. I wonder if that's somewhat by design.
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Old Yesterday, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
The defence lawyer Eric Nelson seems like a nice guy, but not the most aggressive defence lawyer around. I wonder if that's somewhat by design.
One has to wonder how many defence lawyers were willing to take this case or was he chosen by Chauvin. Being aggressive isn't a pre requisite to be a defence lawyer but being able to get one or more jurors to believe your story unless there is sufficient evidence to show that the accused be acquitted due to either lack of evidence, non procedural fairness or other legal requirement.
I have watched a lot of the trial and listened to various experts and I think he will be found guilty but on which charge that remains to be seen. Now it hasn't been brought up yet but may but how many believe George Floyd was claustrophobic?

Looking at the dictionary definition and looking at the events how is the drivers seat of a Mercedes SUV less confining than the back of a Police car? Only a year before this event he was arrested as a passenger in a vehicle and taken in the back of a cruiser to the Hennepin Medical Centre. How many of us have walked back to our car and then fallen asleep/nodded off within minutes unless impaired.
It appears that this case will go to the jury next week as the Judge doesn't want to sequester the jury for the weekend.

And as for the Maple Grove shooting the other day he wasn't pulled over for having an air freshener dangling from the mirror the licence plate tags on the vehicle had expired and when checked out there was an outstanding warrant. Did he deserve to die again an emphatic NO but WHY resist? Up until that point I didn't observe the Police doing anything wrong and Wright was compliant up until he tried to get back in the vehicle. Will it get to the point where Police won't do traffic stops or pull over vehicles and for those who did not see it watch the video of a traffic stop in New Mexico.

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Old Yesterday, 11:00 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Paid by Minneapolis Police and Peace Officers Defense Fund.

The fund is expected to pay out roughly $1 million in Chauvin's defense. Nelson is the just the lawyer in court as well, Nelson has a team of lawyers working behind the scenes in the defense.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...yd/6969253002/

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Old Yesterday, 11:07 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Now it hasn't been brought up yet but may but how many believe George Floyd was claustrophobic?

Looking at the dictionary definition and looking at the events how is the drivers seat of a Mercedes SUV less confining than the back of a Police car? Only a year before this event he was arrested as a passenger in a vehicle and taken in the back of a cruiser to the Hennepin Medical Centre.
Five years ago I would happily walk across a particular field without concern. Then I had an accident, and now have panic attacks when getting close to the same field, yet I can go across other fields without issue.

Also, I don't think there are headrests and a physical cage barrier in front of the driver and front-seat passenger in a Mercedes.
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Old Yesterday, 11:17 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Five years ago I would happily walk across a particular field without concern. Then I had an accident, and now have panic attacks when getting close to the same field, yet I can go across other fields without issue.

Also, I don't think there are headrests and a physical cage barrier in front of the driver and front-seat passenger in a Mercedes.
True but was he truly claustrophobic or using that as an excuse. I have been in the back of a cruiser (professional way not arrested). Yes there is less room and as I don't apparently suffer from claustrophobia I cant really comment on how it might affect someone who is truly claustrophobic. Yes perhaps a larger vehicle might have been better so do we now allow people who need to be taken into custody dictate how they will be transported to the Custody Suite for processing?
Err officer can you transport me in a Limo please.
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