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Deprivation and poverty...

Deprivation and poverty...

Old Dec 19th 2020, 9:40 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
Someone (BristolUK perhaps?) posted a list of a food allowance from a food bank. I had been going to run it through a nutritional analysis program, but it was a bit meaningless as there weren't weights/amounts given. But just looking at it you could see that it was deficient in minerals, vitamins and probably protein, as well as unsaturated fats.
Good memory. It was me.

Would it be more doable for analysis using the meals I "made" with it (portion size) in post 2 rather than just the content? https://britishexpats.com/forum/take...parcel-935656/
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Old Dec 19th 2020, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
And of course, obese children living in poverty are probably malnourished too.

Someone (BristolUK perhaps?) posted a list of a food allowance from a food bank. I had been going to run it through a nutritional analysis program, but it was a bit meaningless as there weren't weights/amounts given. But just looking at it you could see that it was deficient in minerals, vitamins and probably protein, as well as unsaturated fats.
The times I have used the food banks in Canada, it wasn't what I would call healthy, varied a bit, but there was rarely fruits, vegetables or protein dense foods, a lot of carbs, lots of sweets donated from places like Starbucks, random canned foods. It was most certainly nutritionally deficient and being single, male, and no children, I was not in the highest priority group, and I could only go 2 times per month, and each visit was roughly 2 days of food. There were times where all I got was a bag of muffins, donuts, pasta (no sauce though) some powdered milk, and like 8 cans of tuna.

There is a reason the homeless and very poor in Canada, especially growing children and seniors show up at hospitals malnourished, they are not starving to death, but they are not getting the nutrition they need either.

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Old Dec 20th 2020, 3:45 am
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Good memory. It was me.

Would it be more doable for analysis using the meals I "made" with it (portion size) in post 2 rather than just the content? https://britishexpats.com/forum/take...parcel-935656/
I might use that as a basis and then make stated assumptions about the rest (size of loaf, size of tin of beans, etc) just to get an idea.
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 5:38 am
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
I might use that as a basis and then make stated assumptions about the rest (size of loaf, size of tin of beans, etc) just to get an idea.
Okay, this is just a very shallow look at it (and yet turned into War & Peace, sorry about that):
Items - 1L semi-skimmed milk, 425g can chilli, 340g can corned beef, 2 x 400g vegetable soup, 2 x 300g cans of baked beans in tomato sauce, 185g can tuna (drained), 400g jar pasta sauce (tomato based, no meat), 500g dry pasta, 200g peanut butter, 220g packet corn flakes, 200g dry noodles (Asian style rather than instant noodle style), 2 sachets instant soup, 200g sugar (not even close to a packet, but this equates to 40 tsp which is surely more than enough? If this was more it would increase daily calories, carbohydrates and added sugar), 2 mars bars (regular size), 400g small white loaf, 250g butter, 2 x 250g potatoes, 4 large eggs, 2 large carrots, 3 medium bananas and a 300g packet of Rich Tea.

I input for a man aged 30, weight 75kg, 180cm tall (which gives a BMI of 23) with a sedentary lifestyle. His estimated energy requirement would be 2600 kcal per day.
Average daily nutrition:
Energy - around 2000kcal.
Protein - 75g (surprisingly not bad, I completely ignored the baked beans and chilli when I was looking at it originally, would ideally be higher if he was exercising to any great extent but I didn't allow for that)
Fat - 76.5g made up of saturated fat - 35g, polyunsaturated - 9.6g, monounsaturated - 25.9g
Carbohydrate - 241g (sugar - not all of this is "added sugars", a fair bit will be naturally occurring - 83g)
Fibre - 20.5g (this is low, only 69% of adequate intake. Would be better if the loaf provided was anything other than white, which of course it may have been)

Acceptable macronutrient distribution ranges - (these are the Australian ones, cos that's where I'm studying)

20-35% of total energy from fat - no more than 10% from saturated fat
45-65% from carbohydrate
15-25% from protein

Actual macros:
34% from fat - 16% from saturated fat
48% from carbohydrate
15% from protein

So way too much saturated fat, which forces the carbs and protein right to the bottom of their acceptable ranges. Because he's not getting enough calories, if they came from quality protein and wholegrain carbohydrate sources, it would help reduce saturated fat percentage down. The main sources of the sat fats (total weight) are from the corned beef, mars bars, biscuits and, of course, the butter.

Deficiencies:
Thiamin (56% of RDI)
Riboflavin (86%)
Vitamin C (72%)
Folate (46%)
Magnesium (56%)
Calcium (44%)
Zinc (64%)
Potassium (58% of adequate intake)

There should be no more than 5-10% of total energy from added sugars - it can be difficult to work that out from just a nutrition panel (ideally you'd look at the ingredient panel) but there is way more than 10% here. Just the bag of sugar contributes 6%, and that's without the biscuits and mars bars.
Sodium is 750% of adequate intake and 150% of upper level of intake.

So, I have no experience with food banks - are they supposed to be supplemented by your own food stuffs, or is it expected that you'd survive (and not necessarily thrive) on just those foods? The Australian Dietary Guidelines recommend at least 5 serves of vegetables per day, and this doesn't even come close, so are you supposed to supply the bulk of that yourself?
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 7:29 am
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

In Canada food banks are designed to supplement in theory but have become for the poorest the primary source of food with more and more working adults using food banks each year.

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Old Dec 20th 2020, 2:13 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
So, I have no experience with food banks - are they supposed to be supplemented by your own food stuffs, or is it expected that you'd survive (and not necessarily thrive) on just those foods? The Australian Dietary Guidelines recommend at least 5 serves of vegetables per day, and this doesn't even come close, so are you supposed to supply the bulk of that yourself?
Back in my DSS days, they just didn't exist. Churches and other organisations could give the odd bit of food. They've just grown a lot,since the last government change (and doing away with crisis loans) and now it appears normal, especially since Universal Credit.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
In Canada food banks are designed to supplement in theory but have become for the poorest the primary source of food with more and more working adults using food banks each year.
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 2:52 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Back in my DSS days, they just didn't exist. Churches and other organisations could give the odd bit of food. They've just grown a lot,since the last government change (and doing away with crisis loans) and now it appears normal, especially since Universal Credit.
Well I suppose back in your DSS days the streets were covered with dead and starving people. So today they must be doing a great job preventing that!!
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 3:52 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
The times I have used the food banks in Canada, it wasn't what I would call healthy, varied a bit, but there was rarely fruits, vegetables or protein dense foods, a lot of carbs, lots of sweets donated from places like Starbucks, random canned foods. It was most certainly nutritionally deficient and being single, male, and no children, I was not in the highest priority group, and I could only go 2 times per month, and each visit was roughly 2 days of food. There were times where all I got was a bag of muffins, donuts, pasta (no sauce though) some powdered milk, and like 8 cans of tuna.
Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post

There should be no more than 5-10% of total energy from added sugars - it can be difficult to work that out from just a nutrition panel (ideally you'd look at the ingredient panel) but there is way more than 10% here. Just the bag of sugar contributes 6%, and that's without the biscuits and mars bars.
Sodium is 750% of adequate intake and 150% of upper level of intake.

So, I have no experience with food banks - are they supposed to be supplemented by your own food stuffs, or is it expected that you'd survive (and not necessarily thrive) on just those foods? The Australian Dietary Guidelines recommend at least 5 serves of vegetables per day, and this doesn't even come close, so are you supposed to supply the bulk of that yourself?
I'm not familiar with Canada's foodbanks, but I worked for 2 years as a volunteer in an England foodbank, and prior to that worked on a voluntary basis as a financial counsellor in an Australian agency that helped people with debt negotiation. This agency also had a small stock of food and personal care items for people in need.

Foodbanks in both countries receive very little or no funding from governments. The only reason they are able to run at all is through donations of food and other items from the public and corporations/businesses, and are staffed by volunteers.

Foodbanks do encourage donations of nutritious food but can only provide what they have. Although there are a few 'large scale' foodbanks, most are small local services run from churches or small community facilites that lack the space and equipment to store fresh/frozen food such as fruit and vegetables, hence the reliance on non-perishables.

Providing a twice-weekly service from the foodbank in England, we were in a position to guage which items we ran short of most often. I'm sure we weren't the only service who went cap in hand to local shops to try to secure more of these items, and if that failed, to buy them ourselves. There were a lot of deals made with local shops for tinned/bottled fruit and hygiene products such as pads and tampons.

In an ideal world there would be no need for foodbanks. In this less than ideal world there of course is a need for them and as much as they would love to provide nutritionally balanced food packages, sadly they don't always have the capacity to do that.

Couple of interesting facts re governments and foodbanks:

In 2013 the UK government rejected an offer from the European Union fund - European Aid to the Most Deprived - to provide 22 million pounds of funding to UK foodbanks. The reason given for rejecting the offer?
"The UK government does not support the proposal for a regulation on the fund for European Aid to the Most Deprived. It believes that measures of this type are better and more efficiently delivered by individual member states through their own social programmes, and their regional and local authorities, who are best placed to identify and meet the needs of deprived people in their countries and communities."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ing-food-banks

Australian foodbanks provide 67 million meals per year. The Australian government provides annual funding of just $750,000. At the end of 2018, the Australian Prime Minister announced a 50% cut to this funding. He backed down from this following public and political pressure.


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Old Dec 20th 2020, 5:27 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Well I suppose back in your DSS days the streets were covered with dead and starving people. So today they must be doing a great job preventing that!!
Nah, you just didn't read properly what I said.
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Despite the flack the US gets, one thing social service wise they have gotten right is food stamps, sure they are not super generous, but even $100 a month is still a good amount of food in the US, and they also have food banks so supplement on top of food stamp program, there is also WIC for at risk pregnant woman, and at risk young children that is a separate program from food stamps. Also they are not actually stamps anymore and payment is provide onto an EBT card.

US spent $85.6 billion on Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program aka food stamps, in the most recent fiscal year ending in September of this year up from 63.5 billion in 2019 fiscal year.

Most recent u
pdate I can find for WIC was almost $6 billion.

The $85 billion the US spent on SNAP, doesn't include any state level funding that states may provide to top up the federal funding.


The failure in Canada is at the lack of action from the government, food insecurity isn't taken seriously by the government, and even when food banks and charities tell the government they can't meet demand little is done.



Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I'm not familiar with Canada's foodbanks, but I worked for 2 years as a volunteer in an England foodbank, and prior to that worked on a voluntary basis as a financial counsellor in an Australian agency that helped people with debt negotiation. This agency also had a small stock of food and personal care items for people in need.

Foodbanks in both countries receive very little or no funding from governments. The only reason they are able to run at all is through donations of food and other items from the public and corporations/businesses, and are staffed by volunteers.

Foodbanks do encourage donations of nutritious food but can only provide what they have. Although there are a few 'large scale' foodbanks, most are small local services run from churches or small community facilites that lack the space and equipment to store fresh/frozen food such as fruit and vegetables, hence the reliance on non-perishables.

Providing a twice-weekly service from the foodbank in England, we were in a position to guage which items we ran short of most often. I'm sure we weren't the only service who went cap in hand to local shops to try to secure more of these items, and if that failed, to buy them ourselves. There were a lot of deals made with local shops for tinned/bottled fruit and hygiene products such as pads and tampons.

In an ideal world there would be no need for foodbanks. In this less than ideal world there of course is a need for them and as much as they would love to provide nutritionally balanced food packages, sadly they don't always have the capacity to do that.

Couple of interesting facts re governments and foodbanks:

In 2013 the UK government rejected an offer from the European Union fund - European Aid to the Most Deprived - to provide 22 million pounds of funding to UK foodbanks. The reason given for rejecting the offer?
"The UK government does not support the proposal for a regulation on the fund for European Aid to the Most Deprived. It believes that measures of this type are better and more efficiently delivered by individual member states through their own social programmes, and their regional and local authorities, who are best placed to identify and meet the needs of deprived people in their countries and communities."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ing-food-banks

Australian foodbanks provide 67 million meals per year. The Australian government provides annual funding of just $750,000. At the end of 2018, the Australian Prime Minister announced a 50% cut to this funding. He backed down from this following public and political pressure.

Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Dec 20th 2020 at 6:31 pm.
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 11:00 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
Australian foodbanks provide 67 million meals per year. The Australian government provides annual funding of just $750,000. At the end of 2018, the Australian Prime Minister announced a 50% cut to this funding. He backed down from this following public and political pressure.
I don't even think I realised that food banks were charity driven - I knew there was charity input, but I thought they were a government thing. TIL I'm mostly oblivious
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 11:05 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

My Stylist who anyway is cheap, $12 for a cut, was pressurized to install an EBT machine but she refused point blank.
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Old Dec 21st 2020, 12:01 am
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
I don't even think I realised that food banks were charity driven - I knew there was charity input, but I thought they were a government thing. TIL I'm mostly oblivious

Until one is in the system dealing with the government and charities, it's likely hard to fully understand or really know how it all works, I was pretty oblivious to it all until I was in the system having to navigate and deal with it all, and it's an eye opener.

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Old Dec 21st 2020, 12:35 am
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
I don't even think I realised that food banks were charity driven - I knew there was charity input, but I thought they were a government thing. TIL I'm mostly oblivious
Hey, you took a list of random groceries and analysed them for nutritional value based on RDI guidelines. Your conclusions were not only informative and useful, they were damn impressive - not the work of an oblivious person!

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Old Dec 21st 2020, 10:34 pm
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Default Re: Deprivation and poverty...

Originally Posted by Dreamy View Post
I don't even think I realised that food banks were charity driven - I knew there was charity input, but I thought they were a government thing. TIL I'm mostly oblivious
You are not.
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