Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Consider myself open-minded....but

Consider myself open-minded....but

Old Dec 29th 2019, 2:55 pm
  #31  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,115
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I have no idea. Presumably in the same sorts of ways any other fraud is dealt with, if an actual crime is being committed. It seems that as a subset of the 0.6% of the population that is transgender, the percentage of those who are likely to be scamming (to what end?) is likely to be even tinier. Nor do I know why this is any different from any other social issue we deal with, other than the minuscule scale of it.
It is different because it is not fraud and not illegal - people can simply choose what gender they want to say they are.

Then they can compete unfairly at sports, gain employment in inappropriate jobs, have access to gender specific areas and so on.
jimenato is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2019, 2:59 pm
  #32  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: City of Broad Shoulders
Posts: 55,357
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
It is different because it is not fraud and not illegal - people can simply choose what gender they want to say they are.

Then they can compete unfairly at sports, gain employment in inappropriate jobs, have access to gender specific areas and so on.
What is the scale of the problem?

And how do you rank the problems you mention against those who truly feel themselves to be a different gender than the apparent one, having to live their whole lives as something else? Suppose you were asked to live as a woman?

Frankly, I would rather spend our energies on other things.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Dec 29th 2019 at 3:02 pm.
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2019, 3:02 pm
  #33  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2015
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,241
chawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post

​​​​​​​Help me out here please. Is a "trans man" a man becoming a woman or t'other way around - I am genuinely confused.
You're confused? Me too!

Just imagine how confused that child will be growing up.
chawkins99 is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2019, 3:04 pm
  #34  
BE Forum Addict
 
Pica's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,581
Pica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond reputePica has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

I read today of a woman who chemically became a "man" (and lives with a non binary person) but kept his uterus and gave birth by sperm donation from a man who chemically changed into a woman and was delivered of the baby by CS by a transgender person. Took me ages to work out who was what.
How the hell is that child going to feel comfortable with knowing just what gender its parents are/ were?
I don't think they consider the consequences of the mental health of their offspring.

Last edited by Pica; Dec 29th 2019 at 3:10 pm.
Pica is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2019, 3:06 pm
  #35  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: City of Broad Shoulders
Posts: 55,357
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Pica View Post
I read today of a woman who chemically became a "man" but kept his uterus and gave birth by sperm donation from a man who chemically changed into a woman!
How the hell is that child going to feel comfortable with knowing just what gender its parents are?
So what do you propose to do about situations such as this?
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2019, 3:15 pm
  #36  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2015
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,241
chawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond reputechawkins99 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Pica View Post
I read today of a woman who chemically became a "man" (and lives with a non binary person) but kept his uterus and gave birth by sperm donation from a man who chemically changed into a woman and was delivered of the baby by CS by a transgender person. Took me ages to work out who was what.
How the hell is that child going to feel comfortable with knowing just what gender its parents are/ were?
I don't think they consider the consequences of the mental health of their offspring.
The article was very careful to avoid mentioning the sex of 'the baby'. The name was Jamie. Could swing one way or the other (or both). Or neither...

Confused is an understatement.
chawkins99 is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2019, 3:17 pm
  #37  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,115
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
So what do you propose to do about situations such as this?
I don't think there is anything that can be or even needs to be done about this situation. It affects none but the people themselves (and possibly the offspring but not necessarily in a bad way).

However some situations do affect others.

.
jimenato is offline  
Old Dec 29th 2019, 3:20 pm
  #38  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: City of Broad Shoulders
Posts: 55,357
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
I don't think there is anything that can be or even needs to be done about this situation. It affects none but the people themselves (and possibly the offspring but not necessarily in a bad way).

However some situations do affect others.

.

Sounds like most of life, really.
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 30th 2019, 6:28 am
  #39  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 64,744
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Pica View Post
I read today of a woman who chemically became a "man" (and lives with a non binary person) but kept his uterus and gave birth by sperm donation from a man who chemically changed into a woman and was delivered of the baby by CS by a transgender person. Took me ages to work out who was what.
How the hell is that child going to feel comfortable with knowing just what gender its parents are/ were?
I don't think they consider the consequences of the mental health of their offspring.
Why would the child be uncomfortable? You're putting your issues on the hypothetical child. They would be growing up with parents who love them and who will explain at some point should the child be remotely interested. I can't say my parents' gender/sexuality has ever played any part in my life. They are (were) just my parents. Why would these children be any different?
moneypenny20 is offline  
Old Dec 30th 2019, 7:03 am
  #40  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,115
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

I responded to this yesterday but for some reason the post was deleted.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
What is the scale of the problem?
I don't know but whatever the current scale, the potential scale is considerable.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post

And how do you rank the problems you mention against those who truly feel themselves to be a different gender than the apparent one, having to live their whole lives as something else? Suppose you were asked to live as a woman?
This is not relevant. I'm not suggesting that anyone should live as a inappropriate gender.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post

Frankly, I would rather spend our energies on other things.
Well I think the potential problems of the very welcome emancipation of trans people should be considered. And those problems could well be experienced by the trans people themselves in the form of resentment from the wider community that the very real requirements/needs of the few are causing very real problems for the many.

And it just ain't good enough to say 'what's the alternative'.
jimenato is offline  
Old Dec 30th 2019, 8:36 am
  #41  
Mask wearer
 
DaveLovesDee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Abertawe, Cymru
Posts: 21,030
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Of course being polite is the preferred method but in my job I have some concerns in how to deal with such a person should they need searching and especially if a strip search is required. Our protocols stipulate that a search should be carried out by an officer of the same sex. However a male/female can conduct such a search if there are grounds to believe the person being searched presents a danger and no other officers of the same sex are available. This type of search would not usually result in the removal of most clothing articles however could lead to a full strip search.
Should our Agency now have to hire a quota of person(s) who don't identify as male/female?
So yes I do worry a bit as this is my day to day life until of course I retire.
I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that someone at a US airport was selected for screening and stated that they identify as female, so they were taking to a room to be searched by a female officer. During the search, the self-identified female got an erection.

Not sure I'd want to be that officer searching.

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
That's great.

But it can't be denied there are potential problems:
  • A lady having a a gynie exam who asked for a female nurse who turned out to be bald and bearded (real example).
  • Conflicts in other gender sensitive situations - schools, changing rooms etc.
  • Conflicts in strength sports
I'm sure we are all sympathetic and accommodating but...
In the first example, is there any reason a bearded male shouldn't become a gyno nurse? Would the patient have been happier with a lesbian female nurse? Though I can see why sometimes a woman would want ( and should get) a female nurse. It should be then made a note of on her file.

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Transgender people are not the problem - it is the potential issues - and there are many - that are raised by the subject that are the problem.

For instance not all people who claim to be a particular gender will be - they will be scamming. As I say not a problem caused by transgender people but caused by the issue.

How is that to be dealt with?
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Dec 30th 2019, 8:55 am
  #42  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Fredbargate's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Land of no recession
Posts: 9,709
Fredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond reputeFredbargate has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post


Actually that depends on which way they're going doesn't it?

Fredbargate is offline  
Old Dec 30th 2019, 9:24 am
  #43  
Heading for Poppyland
 
robin1234's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 11,226
robin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

Originally Posted by Fredbargate View Post
[dice/testicles]
THAT’S what they look like?
robin1234 is offline  
Old Dec 30th 2019, 9:27 am
  #44  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,115
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

A lady having a a gynie exam who asked for a female nurse who turned out to be bald and bearded (real example).
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
...
In the first example, is there any reason a bearded male shouldn't become a gyno nurse? Would the patient have been happier with a lesbian female nurse? Though I can see why sometimes a woman would want ( and should get) a female nurse. It should be then made a note of on her file.
No - no reason at all if a male of any description becomes a gynie nurse.

But this wasn't a male it was a female. The woman in question had asked for a female nurse and got one. The fact that the nurse had all the outward signs of being male made the woman understandably uncomfortable.

This kind of problem (and it is more serious than it appears at first glance) is exactly the sort which will arise and need addressing.



jimenato is offline  
Old Dec 30th 2019, 9:43 am
  #45  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Dec 2019
Location: India
Posts: 1
wescoorg is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Consider myself open-minded....but

don't be over open minded my dear
wescoorg is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.