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Climate change.

Climate change.

Old Feb 16th 2021, 5:32 pm
  #181  
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Default Re: Climate change.

I'd be surprised if water levels behind dams constructed to generate power aren't managed to maximise monetary income.
Any power generating and selling company will want to maximise the return on investment and water held behind a dam represents potential income and it makes sense not to use it to generate low price energy when it can be held in reserve for use when prices were high.
Of course there'll be times when the amount of water behind the dam will force it's use no matter what the price but in general management will be using models to ensure maximum profitability.
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Old Feb 16th 2021, 6:17 pm
  #182  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
I'd be surprised if water levels behind dams constructed to generate power aren't managed to maximise monetary income.
Any power generating and selling company will want to maximise the return on investment and water held behind a dam represents potential income and it makes sense not to use it to generate low price energy when it can be held in reserve for use when prices were high.
Of course there'll be times when the amount of water behind the dam will force it's use no matter what the price but in general management will be using models to ensure maximum profitability.
In the US, most big dams were built by government agencies and they have 'charters' that dictate how both their water and their power can be used/sold. Their original intent for the 'water' side of things got heavily corrupted but I don't know what happened to the electricity side of things. For the water, it was meant to be sold to small farmholders, as a way to incentivize the settlement of the arid west by individual families They specifically excluded larger landowners. But over time, loopholes were found and water in the west has become one of the biggest forms of corporate welfare on earth. But the power was heavily regulated and had to be sold at certain prices and to certain types of customers. Don't know where that stands today.

UPDATE - "Electricity from the dam's powerhouse was originally sold pursuant to a fifty-year contract, authorized by Congress in 1934, which ran from 1937 to 1987. In 1984, Congress passed a new statute which set power allocations to southern California, Arizona, and Nevada from the dam from 1987 to 2017. The powerhouse was run under the original authorization by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power and Southern California Edison; in 1987, the Bureau of Reclamation assumed control. In 2011, Congress enacted legislation extending the current contracts until 2067, after setting aside 5% of Hoover Dam's power for sale to Native American tribes, electric cooperatives, and other entities. The new arrangement began on October 1, 2017"
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover...r_distribution )

Last edited by Steerpike; Feb 16th 2021 at 6:20 pm.
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Old Feb 16th 2021, 7:07 pm
  #183  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
In the US, most big dams were built by government agencies and they have 'charters' that dictate how both their water and their power can be used/sold. Their original intent for the 'water' side of things got heavily corrupted but I don't know what happened to the electricity side of things. For the water, it was meant to be sold to small farmholders, as a way to incentivize the settlement of the arid west by individual families They specifically excluded larger landowners. But over time, loopholes were found and water in the west has become one of the biggest forms of corporate welfare on earth. But the power was heavily regulated and had to be sold at certain prices and to certain types of customers. Don't know where that stands today.

UPDATE - "Electricity from the dam's powerhouse was originally sold pursuant to a fifty-year contract, authorized by Congress in 1934, which ran from 1937 to 1987. In 1984, Congress passed a new statute which set power allocations to southern California, Arizona, and Nevada from the dam from 1987 to 2017. The powerhouse was run under the original authorization by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power and Southern California Edison; in 1987, the Bureau of Reclamation assumed control. In 2011, Congress enacted legislation extending the current contracts until 2067, after setting aside 5% of Hoover Dam's power for sale to Native American tribes, electric cooperatives, and other entities. The new arrangement began on October 1, 2017"
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover...r_distribution )
Cadillac Desert is a brilliant book about dam building in the US west. Whenever I go on a western road trip I end up going back to this book to re-read text on places I've visited.
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Old Feb 17th 2021, 11:15 pm
  #184  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Cadillac Desert is a brilliant book about dam building in the US west. Whenever I go on a western road trip I end up going back to this book to re-read text on places I've visited.
Yep, most surprising book I've ever read! Surprising, in that, how could 'water' be so interesting! I have both the paper and kindle copies. Taught me more about American History than I could ever imagine. Intrigue, corruption, stupidity, larger-than-life participants, it has it all! The story of LA's water supply is a wonderful story also; obviously it is part-and-parcel of the bigger 'water in the west' story, but LA's struggle to secure water for its expansion is a truly gripping story (who would have guessed?); as is the story of the Hetch Hetchey reservoir. Growing up in UK, I don't think it's easy to grasp the scope and scale of these projects; maybe equivalent to the development of the early rail or canal systems?

The most disturbing part of all this going forward, to me, is the fact that the reservoirs behind these dams are silting up and will render the dams useless in the not-too-distant future.
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Old Feb 23rd 2021, 12:34 am
  #185  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Can highly recommend a visit to Dinorwig (with or without kids), best done on a rainy, dreary, day when it's not much fun scaling rock/mountains.
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Old Feb 23rd 2021, 7:23 pm
  #186  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Serious stuff here. Our species had better start getting its act together quickly. I worry about what my son's life will be like.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...nt-agency-head

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Old Feb 23rd 2021, 7:57 pm
  #187  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Serious stuff here. Our species had better start getting its act together quickly. I worry about what my son's life will be like.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...nt-agency-head
I agree with everything in the article.
I was shaken a few years ago when the UK was subject to a cold blast from the north. A video online showed the polar vortex and how it was swirling south immediately indicated to me that it was losing stability. Today Texas is recovering from a similar event.
I'd liken it to a spinning top as it slows down and starts to wobble wildly.
It was clear to me that once started, this instability would only get worse until the vortex collapses completely. What this will inevitably result in will be a step change in climate from one stable state to another. It remains to be seen whether this new state will be benign but I doubt it since it'll affect horticulture throughout the world as crops that flourished under one climate will be wiped out under another.
These changes will inevitably be associated with increases in wild extreme events like hurricanes as warmer seas and atmosphere feed energy into such events, we hold our breath... but it won't do much good and I haven't mentioned sea level rises.


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Old Feb 24th 2021, 12:03 am
  #188  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Well in Colorado water is a first in time first in use basis.

Most of the water rights, the tunnels reservoirs and dams are owned by the big cities, the older ones Denver, Boulder, Longmont etc have the oldest rights.

Certainly an issue with the newer suburbs who do not have historical rights, Broomfield was in the news recently and I know that is a constrictor on growth.

Amusing when there is a drought up here, where the water comes from, and you go down to Denver and see them watering the sidewalks.



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Old Feb 24th 2021, 1:27 am
  #189  
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Default Re: Climate change.

I am glad in one way when I was born and hopefully will be dead before it gets too bad, but I feel for the younger generation who is going to have to deal with the brunt of this full force in the coming decades.

The prediction is BC and the PNW will become like California, and if we this far north become like California, places like So. California, Arizona and such certainly most likely wont be habitable. Scientists are planting small areas with native California trees because its becoming drier and warmer and some native species here are dying because its getting drier and warmer. The trees cannot adapt fast enough.
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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 12:45 am
  #190  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Serious stuff here. Our species had better start getting its act together quickly. I worry about what my son's life will be like.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...nt-agency-head
Sir Bevan and the rest of us would get better results banging our heads against a brick wall than we would getting the corporations and 'capitalism first' types to act in a manner that will make any noticeable difference to the planet's climate. I used to worry about the kind of planet my kids would end up in, now I wonder just what state it will be in just a couple of decades from now.

Mind you, you don't want to be going by my example. Since moving to the States I reckon my destructive footprint is at least three times the size it was in the UK. My average daily commute has gone from about 10 miles to 160, and along with it the option to cycle or run into work. My house has gone from being a reasonably well insulated, double glazed, terrace to an energy consuming, best part heating/cooling porous detached box, my foodstuffs have gone from being actively locally sourced to God only knows from where and the construction industry that I work in here is unbelievably wasteful, unnecessarily packaged and plastic heavy. The only good thing, environmentally, about my move is that I'm no longer using large amounts of Burmese Teak... ...And I reckon that my footprint is still barely negligible compared to the general populace here
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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 12:37 pm
  #191  
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Default Re: Climate change.

And then we have -

Scientists say they have confirmed the existence of space hurricanes, with a 600 mile-wide mass spotted above the North Pole. ...
Source: Sky News.
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