Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

I think it would, and actually think it would work in Spanish cities. Certain deals that they have (such as a curry and a drink for £4.99 on curry night) would work well I feel, especially with expat communities. Plus, you already have certain chains (such as Museo del Jamon in Madrid) that offer food and drinks at budget prices. Of course they'd have to speed up service times, but to be fair the time it takes to get served in the UK appears to have improved recently.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Cant see how it can, and I will tell you why.

Its not there already. JDW is a huge Pubco, its got a buying power that is hardly matched by anyone and the result is that they can afford to have loss leaders, they can afford to do £1 pint deals etc, and in the British market that makes them a strong market leader and hard to beat at all, but in Spain? Nope. For a company with the brains and ability to adapt to market changes with the speed that they do not to already venture into Spain means they don't see it as a viable market. If they are not there its because they don't see it as worth it, and to do it on anything less than the scale that they do things would mean you wouldn't have the purchasing power and ability to churn food and drink out at such low prices.

Don't forget, JDW own 99.9% of their premisses. That makes it much easier to run loss leaders, could you say the same thing for a £1000 a month rent, £1000 a month rates?

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

There may be good reasons why it wouldn't work (hoping to get some, which is why I started the thread ;) ) However your reasons hardly stack up. A few years ago Wetherspoons didn't even exist - it didn't stop them appearing and getting to the size they are now. As for " If they are not there its because they don't see it as worth it" - this has to be the most illogical statement I've ever seen. Did McDonalds prior to expanding out of the US, not have outlets in the UK, Spain etc because "they don't see it as worth it"????? You often have good points to make RugbyMatt, but I fear today's an off day:ohmy:

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

My daughter worked at Weatherspoons on and off for many years in her Uni days and for a while after.

Consequently none of us will ever eat at Weatherspoons again, knowing what she knew.

In Spain. Weatherspoons? Why, is I guess the overall question. Why would I want to go in a plastic Weatherspoon type franchise establishment when I can go to a nice little restaurant / bar and get a three course meal with drinks for anything from €6 upwards

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Yeah, nice reply, and people wonder why I always end up in rows with posters, one wonders if you would have replied to another poster in the same manner.



Ok, since you have all the answers lets hear them.

Its not like I am sat as an outsider looking in, I am involved in the Trade, my OH is a hotel manager and has run her own pubs, I have run a bar in Spain, and have been involved in many aspects of the catering trade, and we have good friends who own a large Pubco, and believe me, Pubco's are after any angle they can get, and given the price of drink in Spain I cant see how it could possibly work.
An example, a nine pin of Carling costs £133, that makes it roughly £1.77 a pint to buy in for the company, now, to make it worth a companies worthwhile they need at least 50% on top of that, which makes it £2.65. Now thats not much of a mark up is it? .85p I think, so to make the rent alone you would need to be selling a nine pin a day, and even then you would struggle.

Now, to get the savings that JDW get you would have to be selling around 3.2 million pints a year, now, do you think you could do that?

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Oh, and in some ways RM is right ......... if they felt it would work then they would have been there by now. It works in the UK cos its no frills cheap beer & food. In other words, what we already have here in abundance

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Thats my point, it works because they undercut almost everyone, yet in a struggling market in Spain where its cheap anyway, why even bother to try and lose money in an already saturated market.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Oh and just to add, JDW have been in business since 1979, thats 30 years, if they hadnt cottoned on to Spain by now then they probably wouldn't have been quite as successful as they are.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Is this franchise similar to Starbucks ? They seem to do well in Seville. Another chain of coffeehouses is Cafe de Indias, but the establishments I´ve seen lately are very very quiet.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Its a Pubco, alcohol and food. They have been in business since 1979, in all honesty Jur, being a business man, would you not have looked into setting up a while back?

They have a turnover of over £1 billion.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

As Mitz said, Wethersppons worked in the UK because there was a gap in the market for independent (of breweries I mean) budget pubs. That gap doesn't exist in Spain as most establishments are independant anyway, and are already at budget prices.

There are two chains already in Spain that spring to mind that offer something like what you say but don't have anywhere near the success of Wetherspoons. I'm thinking of Cañas y Tapas and 100 Montaditos. They all have a similar look, have the same menu in each of its establishments, off the same beers etc, and are in general priced the same throughout the country. They have varying degrees of success but price can be an issue. Whilst 100 Montaditos in Madrid might be competitive there, in a less affluent area of Spain it might be seen as slightly overpriced. Islantilla (a resort in Huelva) has a 100 Montaditos and works well in summer, but only because of brand recognition for the holidaymakers from Madrid, Seville etc. Locals wouldn't necessarily see it as a budget pub given that a small beer is around €1,80 and I think (but could be wrong) the montaditos are around €2,50-3,00 ish. A standard small beer in the area is anything from €1,00-1,20 (although €1,50 in a bar de copas or restaurant) with montaditos at €1,50-2,00.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

If a huge company like that sees a market for them they´ll go for it I guess, But I don´t think this sort of chain will add any value to life in Spain. Looking at their website it does not seem to have anything special which makes them different from any other chain of Pubco´s, like All Bar One.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

In essence there is little to distinguish them, aside from size obviously, I think M&B have 40 odd pubs while JDW have well over 700 I think, and as Mitz said, if you have such a wide variety of places to drink and eat in Spain, why go to a Pubco?

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Exactly Jur. Prior to Starbucks opening in Spain I'm sure you could have had the argument "If they are not there its because they don't see it as worth it" - ie it's a nonsensical argument. Of course successful companies expand first in their home market and take advantage of economies of scale etc. It may well be that Wetherspoons never venture abroad, but seeing how they're already based in several airports, I wouldn't bet against it. Having said that, I'd have been one of those who would have thought Starbucks would never try the Spanish market, as you could already buy good cheap coffee in lots of places.

Mitzy - 6Euros for a Menu? Sounds very good value. You're looking at 8 or more in somewhere like Madrid. Although it'd be interesting to find out current prices at Museo del Jamon

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

There are surprisingly quite a lot of chains that seem (we'll see if the recession wipes them out!! ) to do ok in Spain eg Gambrinus, Canas y Tapas, Museo del Jamon, 101 Montaditos etc.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

But Wetherspoons et all are not a coffee house, they are Pubco's, and as we all know, the license trade in Spain is on its arse, you are not going to get the Spanish using places like this, its not their style, which is why they work so well in the UK, because Wetherspoons in particular focus on the Victorian Pub image, in fact they actually take their theme from something written about the ideal BRITISH pub, thats their style, their theme..... they are tapping into the British psyche, so why would it appeal to the Spanish?

Now if you hope that the British in Spain would be your stock and trade then think again, there are pubs and bars up and down Spain who offer two for one deals, half price happy hours, and any number of loss leader deals just to get punters through the door!

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Are any of them Pubco's?

NO.

Open a franchise of them then.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Exactly the same argument could have been made for a) McDonalds b) Starbucks c) Kebab shops d) Irish pubs, prior to their opening in Spain. But hey, if it doesn't exist NOW, that's the reason it'll never exist hey?

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Yeah, because going into coffee houses is not in the Spanish psyche no?

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

For what it's worth (probably little, as I thought Starbucks would bomb in Spain) I think Wetherspoons would find it difficult to cope with the regimented daily meal routine ie most Spanish people if eating out would go between 2.30 and 5; thus you need allocated meal spaces, and people prepared to stand at the bar at busy times. Here in the UK a lot of their meals are served up throughout the day, and so there's normally somewhere to sit in the pub (there are exceptions of course!).

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

In all honesty, is this why you think they haven't broken into the Spanish market?

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

to which you can equally easily say "yeah because going into bars is not in the Spanish psyche no?"....

We're not talking about the same thing comparing a cafe con leche in the local bar as a mid morning break, with the Starbucks experience. Funnily enough the Starbucks I saw most busy in Madrid were popular with foreign air-hostesses for some reason. As I've stated I had assumed Starbucks would bomb, but I hadn't counted on it being a new experience. People went there for the image, perceived glamour, a smoke-free environment (Starbucks were quite smart to go non-smoking I feel), wi-fi access etc . Some may even have gone there to eye up air hostesses!!! :wub:

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

In all honesty Matt, do you think Weatherspoons have decided never to expand abroad?

I suspect that up to now they've not even seriously considered expanding abroad; however as they reach saturation point in the UK I can see them attempting it (not saying which country they'll try first though). Equally they may never expand abroad. But saying (as you appear to be doing) that because they haven't done it yet, they've ruled it out for good, seems a bit OTT. Apologies if I'm misrepresenting your case.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Thats NOT what I said, I said that going into Pubs and the whole Pub thing is not in the Spanish psyche, Wetherspoons et all focus on a particular style, some hate it, I quite like it, but they focus on a bygone age when the pub was flat caps and whippets, spitoons and leather chairs, heavily stained glass and bench seats, thats one of the reasons Wetherspoons don't "generally" have tvs and juke boxes or even music, because they harken back to a long gone era......... Now how do you connect to a population who never had that? How do you connect to a population who just don't get it?

Thats why Wetherspoons are not in Spain, because they are clever enough to know that what they have built their business model around would not work outside of the Uk.

Irish themed bars are VERY different.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

I had this very discussion last night in a pub here, a couple came to the pub, I kind of know them, and I know they can be a little morbid, and sure as eggs is eggs they started up about the bloody recession, and in no time they had completely depressed the hell out of the whole bar! One of the things they said was about the death of the British pub, lamenting their closures and the way communities are losing their hub. The irony was that there we were, sat, on a Thursday night, in a village pub, with no quiz night/curry night/ steak night offers, and there must have been 60 people in the pub. I tried to discuss it with them and they were adamant that places were suffering and wouldn't hear anything to the contrary....
So we asked the landlord. His reply took them a back, he replied that he had never been so busy, yeah, last winter was dire and it was one of the worse he had seen, but that was mainly due to the 6 foot snow drifts that Dartmoor had and the 2 mtrs of rain they had A MONTH since October.....

Now my long winded point is this..... you say saturated, yet JDW's own sales figures are not showing any slow down, in fact they are looking at expanding into another Pubco's failing property portfolio and there are rumours on the street that a VERY well known Pubco is about to declare itself finished, and it could bring JDW's portfolio to nearly a thousand pubs. Not bad in a "slowing market"

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Last word on this subject. You said ".Irish themed bars are VERY different". Some are, some aren't. I know "Irish" pubs in Madrid and Valladolid that are as close to traditional English pubs as you can get. Very popular with both British ex-pats and local Spanish.

You also repeat this statement "Thats why Wetherspoons are not in Spain, because they are clever enough to know that what they have built their business model around would not work outside of the Uk" No, no, no. They are in the UK because they started in the UK. They may well decide never to expand overseas. But at one time McDonalds was unkown outside North America. If you'd had been around at the time by the same argument you could have said "Thats why McDonalds are not in Spain (or the UK or Germany), because they are clever enough to know that what they have built their business model around would not work outside of North America). " Incidentally do you know that the bar-restaurant chain Gambrinus, now popular in Spain, is foreign-owned? These things do happen (and again I'm not claiming that Wetherspoons are going to do the same). But stating over and over again " it won't happen because it's currently not happening and that shows they've ruled it out for sound reasons" is, I'm afraid to say nonsensical to my ears. Now it may be that I'm completely misrepresenting your point (if so I apologise). Last word from me today as I've got to dash - have a nice one, wherever you may be based.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

OK Steve, you might well be right, but the way I see it is this....


They have been trading since 1979, they have a turnover of well over £1 billion, if they are not in Spain by now, there is a pretty good reason.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Same as Tescos etc, too much Red Tape. ;-))

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

I´m just wondering how the Hooters chain in Spain is doing, anyone can shed a light ?

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

What does this mean?


What an odd statement, and completely out of context given the subject of the thread. People never fail to amaze me on this forum you know.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

The bit about daughter working in Weatherspoons and not eating there ever...
We have had exactly the same experience as Mitzy ...
A good chef can produce an excellent meal from fresh ingredients for a reasonable price ... why eat a frozen bag of 'mixed grill' slung in boiling water then reheated to order ;) ... no skill and even less taste!

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

We're talking out of date food stuffs and in one case food being prepared by a kitchen assistant because the chef had not turned up

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Yuk!:thumbdown:

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

JDW work in the UK because they have huge buying power there, they dictate the price of what they buy, just like people like Tesco, they know the manufacturing costs of the foods, and they offer a small profit to the manufacturers, as long as they can buy a huge amount. In Spain they would at the start have little buying power, so would struggle to be competitive, especialy as the market is so seasonal, they might well do well in summer, but, along with a lot of other places, struggle in winter. Starbucks is a bit different, they are an INTERNATIONAL company, not national like JDW, so the brand name is better known.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

I have some knowledge of Tim Martin, the owner of JD Wetherspoon, and how he started his company. He was a qualified barrister from Belfast and lived at Muswell Hill, and liked a drink. His local lost its licence and he used his legal skills to get it back, and then realised that a loophole in the English licensing laws allowed almost any building to obtain a licence, if, hundreds of years ago, some long closed-public house had had one in the area.

Martin bought all sorts of suitable premises, a recent one was the former Chadwell Heath police station, and turned them into pubs, and it was always location, location location, and the local magistrates courts had no option but to grant him a licence. Had he applied for a music or gaming licence, he would have been turned down, so he didn't, and themed his pubs to work without them, and very successfully too.

He went for volume beer sales and brewers fell over themselves to allow him discounts, thereby allowing him to sell beer, often real ale, at a pound a pint.

If you tried to sell 'real ale', the dark, warm stuff with an acquired taste, in Spain, there would be civil unrest on the streets, though maybe not in Benidorm.

Re: Would the pub chain Wetherspoons work in Spain?
 

Very interesting - thanks for that post HBG! Wetherspoons do sell a lot of beers other than real ale now though - I've even seen San Miguel on a promotion there, and they have quite a good range of continental beers (Polish, Czech and Belgian beers). They've even got a "wine festival" on at the moment, but I'm afraid I don't have the expertise to judge whether their wines are good or not. Interesting also regarding not applying for music licences - Wetherspoons used to publicise the fact a while back that they didn't have music or tvs in their pubs. This is changing now as some of their pubs now have wide screen tvs, and I know of at least one that shows live football. Also they're expanding into hotel accommodation - if they can crack that market that'll be great, as so many hotel chains in the UK are wildly expensive.