winter fuel payment
 

I have just been reading on 'the goverment abuses expats' website that it is now possible to claim the winter fuel payment while living in Spain. Have I got it right, has anyone here tried it? if so has anyone succeeded? Any information would be helpful, as we keep getting told it's not possible.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Only if you first qualified whilst living in the UK don't think it applies to new claimants living abroad.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

yes - very cut & dried this one

if you were getting the payment in the UK before moving to Spain, you continue getting it

if not, then you can't claim it

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Isn't this payment designed to keep desperate people from freezing to death? It's about time the condems put money where their mouth is & got to grips with the welfare state once & for all!

Re: winter fuel payment
 

No it`s a payment that anyone over 60 can claim in the UK, we all paid into the system so why just because we left the UK shouldn`t we be allowed to claim for it ?
Oh I forgot, it doesn`t get cold in Spain so we don`t need it. :eek:

Re: winter fuel payment
 

This is a strong argument. The strongest opponents of the payment seem to think that Spain is always warm and sunny. What if the Brit concerned lives in Madrid or Burgos (where winters are a lot cooler)? My flat is south facing in London, and barely needs much heating at all, even in the heart of winter. Yet I'm sure others in the same block who are pensioners are not chastised for claiming this payment...

Having said all that, it would not surprise me to see this payment get cut - a lot of things will be axed by the government, and this seems a prime target. Vamos a ver...

Re: winter fuel payment
 

It has been cut 250 GBP last year, 200 this year. The reason given in the last budget when this happened was that the extra 50 quid that Labour gave was only temporary. It gets very cold here at night too.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I think you've answered your own question Jdr, lets not go down the Spain never gets cold argument. We all know how cold the UK can get & that's why it's paid. Winter in Spain is like Autumn in UK.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Nope.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Fair's fair Chic, if you're out of work & have paid into the system then yeah you deserve dole regardless of where you live. If you're sick, can't work & have paid into the system then you deserve the benefit regardless of where you live but winter fuel payments??????

All that's gonna happen here is it will be scrapped & those living in northern Scotland who have paid into the system all their life will freeze to death!

Fair's fair but this is wrong!

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Ohhhhhh, I like being called Chic but still don´t agree with you. It gets really cold here in the winter at night with no central heating either. And Madrid is freezing.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Every year this subject comes up in my pub. It is benefit that was imposed on everyone regardless of need. Many of my customes readily agree that they don't need it and they didn't ask for it. I know one Guy who uses it for flights to his apartment in the Canaries.

The original idea of the Winter fuel payment was to help people combat the worst of the UK weather not Spanish winters.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Rubbish
Cold is down to temperature drop between winter and summer from mid 40c to 4c is a little bit worse than 21c to 4c, it depends on what your body is used to.
I feel cold when it gets below 20c (when it is a hot day in the UK), probable just as cold as someone in the UK at 4c.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I am a UK citizen and it should be my right to have it if it is cold, no matter what part of Europe I live, I have probably paid into the system more than most of who receive it in the UK now.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I don't deny your entitlement to it. What you may or may not have paid is irrelevant, it is not means tested.

What is questionable is whether the fund is being used to assist the people it was designed to. In your case and others in your position I don't think it is.

This is my opinon. No doubt as a new member I will be subject to the usual volley of criticism that eventually will drive me away.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I don't get the payment & never will

but I have to say I have never felt as cold indoors the UK in the winter as I do every winter here in Spain - I have never had to wrap myself in a blanket to watch TV in the UK, as just about everyone I know does in Spain

it costs far more to heat a Spanish house than it does a house in the UK - to the extent that most people I know simply can't afford to do it

and it DOES get cold - even in temperate areas such as mine - we see snow on the mountain just about every winter

in other areas - & believe it or not, not ALL Brits live on the 'sunny coasts' - the snow starts falling in October - first snow last year was on Oct 25th - just four days after the first snow in the UK - in Aberdeen

if British pensioners, who are entitled to the payment are keeping warm in the winter in Spain because of it, then it is doing what it was intended for



oh - & if you hadn't mentioned that you are a new member I wouldn't have noticed....................not that it makes a jot of difference (although 7 months is hardly new)

Re: winter fuel payment
 

As Concierges for the Spanish section of BE we would like to say hello and welcome.

BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let us know if you need any further help.

Rosemary and Graham

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Whether we like it or not, the qualification for initially claiming the WFP depends upon being habitually resident in the UK. If you've qualified for it, you can then export it to Europe. It is nothing to do with how much you have paid in, it is residency-based.

If you are resident in the UK in the 3rd week of September, you'll get it the following winter.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

There is always the possibility that the government could reduce/scrap WFA but they cannot take it away from those expats that qualify for it.

They tried this once and it went to the EU courts. They lost the case and ultimately agreed to a compromise that said that it had to be an exportable benefit.

I can't see the government wanting to take it back to the EU court as they will almost certainly lose again.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

ABSOLUTLEY!
They seem to forget that there are in fact ski slopes just a short distance inland, it goes without saying that we must get cold weather here!

It is very wrong in my opinion that pensioners here in Spain who have worked in the UK, paid taxes there... and often are still paying them are so discriminated against because they live in Spain, where apparently it's 40c all year round. :rolleyes:
How come it is OK for the pensioner resident in the UK and getting the winter fuel payment to spend the three coldest months of the winter in a nice warm hotel on the CDS?.....
Should they still get the payment when it's not being used for the intended purpose?

It seems that double standards apply when it comes to expats, they are very happy to demand in some instances that we still pay UK tax, but they are very reluctant to pay any benefits. :thumbdown:
But then there just aren't the votes in it for them!

I don't get any benefits and would prefer not to have them, but would like to be allowed to pay all of my taxes here in Spain, at least that way I would benefit in some small way for my contributions to the state.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

It was designed for anyone over 60 that new about claiming for it.
I paid into the system for 45 years where the money for it comes from, anybody moving to the UK can apply and get it if they are in the UK on a certain date in September, regardless if they have contributed to the system, surely this must be unfair.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

IMO the winter fuel payment will disappear altogether, along with free bus travel for pensioners, if and when the proposed £140 per week flat rate pension is introduced - no way will the Government be so munificent as to pay all of them!

And a flat rate increased pension would not be means tested, either, and so would go both to rich people to whom it would be almost irrelevant, and to those who may never have worked and paid taxes in their lives.

What about child benefit being paid to millionaires, or the fact that some parents may choose to spend it on cheap lager and cigarettes instead of what it was intended for?

The argument for paying universal non-means tested benefits is that it is cheaper to pay everyone the same rather than administer a complex system to decide who qualifies and who does not, it would be impossible to keep everybody who receives some type of benefit under surveillance to check what they are spending the money on!

Re: winter fuel payment
 

You dont get pension increases in Canada, Australia or most commonwealth countries. The European Court of Human Rights rejected an appeal from a group of UK pensioners by an 11 to 6 majority to allow it.

So its hardly likely the UK government will sanction the winter fuel allowance for all and sundry.

Jim

Re: winter fuel payment
 

this used to be the case but there seems to have been a recent ECJ ruling on the 21 July 2011 which if I understand it correctly, makes it possible for expats. to claim it when living in Spain. though I very much doubt if the powers that be will cooperate easily with any claim that is made.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I can't believe people complain about the cold in Spain. Yes the temp does drop but the difference is in Spain you can put a jumper on or climb under the duvet to be snug as a bug, but in the UK you can still freeze to death even with a jumper on under the quilt!

I really didn't realise we had so many freeloaders in Spain :confused:

Re: winter fuel payment
 

What on earth do you mean?????
Winter fuel allowance is an allowable payment for pensioners in Spain under current rules. It isn't freeloading or bucking the system ..... having paid into the system all your life it's one of the payments that is allowable to you.

Next you'll be saying getting a state pension is freeloading :lol:

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Under current rules murderers & serial pedophiles are allowed back into society after just a few years in prison!

I think everyone will agree the current rules are why Britain is becoming a 3rd world country.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Oh ... so you think that paying into the system for the whole of your life and getting what you are entitled to when you retire is the reason that the UK is (as you say) becoming a third world country???? :blink:

What on earth does the winter fuel payment have to do with peds and murders getting out of prison early :confused::confused:

Re: winter fuel payment
 

similar:D discussion about this last year people really got annoyed about it including myself as i consider i am entitled to it after working all those years and paid into the system:thumbsup:

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I agree that where you live in Alhaurin el Grande it's not that cold as it's near the coast, but you should try further inland in the winter months to see just how cold it does get....:ohmy:
Granada or Madrid would be a good starting point for you, then come back and tell us you were not cold in the midst of all that snow. :rolleyes:

As for those who are lucky enough to get winter fuel allowance being "freeloaders" .... don't be stupid, they have earned the right to it having paid into the system for fifty years!

I wait with interest to see what you're going to call expats next, you have already in other threads called them "blaggers" and "trailer trash" and said "the worst thing about Spain is British expats".
You don't appear to like your fellow countrymen very much do you. :thumbdown:

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Accept it, Brits are not the nicest people in the world & expats are notoriously the worst. Of course I don't mean ALL expats, just the majority.

Back on subject. The UK can't afford the welfare state anymore. It's creation was a good thing but it's been watered down since then from helping people who need help to throwing cash around willy nilly. This thread has convinced me that the winter fuel payment has to go!

Re: winter fuel payment
 

It is very sad that you have such a low opinion of your fellow Brits or is it the British in general. I do not know what sort of peer circle you go round in but I would differ with the majority being unsavoury in fact 90% of those I know are really nice people, the ones that tend to be less honourable tend to have been here many years and feel they have the right to rip others off, many of which have businesses and have prices so extortionate that coming from the UK within the last few years I struggle to understand the reality of it all, have qualifications to do construction jobs that they learned through playing with Lego but think they are builders and tinkering with your car on a Saturday makes you a time served mechanic but in defence of these people many expats leave their brains at the airport and their common sense within the UK.

I treat others as I would wish to be treated, I trust till it is broken and I select my friends by the same accord, maybe choosing a little more careful may change your opinion

As this is the country of choice for many retired people they are more than entitled to receive what is due to them irrelevant of where they choose to live. I choose to live here and as I am a long way off retirement, I am very unlikely to get anything from the UK when I am at retirement at 66/67 or even older as they are likely to increase the retirement age again, but I do not begrudge anyone getting what they worked so hard for and have seen diminished by constant whittling away of pension pots, if they got decent pensions in the first place as they were led to believe they would get then they would not need anything else.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

You so obviously are not a pensioner so you do not know what you are talking about, when you do get to that age you will realize that it is bloody cold here in the winter and it is impossible to get more than 1 room in a Spanish house to a reasonable temperature to sit in with your thick blanket and several jumpers and woolly socks on, and when you suffer from old age ailments believe me you need warmth. So please don't shout you mouth off about things you know nothing about

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I think you summed Brit expats up pretty well there Jay

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Of course I know what the winter in like Jo & yes I know you only get one room warm but my point is that you can warm up in Spain under the duvet, whereas in Scotland you can't!

Re: winter fuel payment
 

I've worked in Scotland, and I have to say I don't recognise this description. The buildings in Scotland are built to cope with 7 or 8 months of winter; I certainly found my flat in Glasgow to be perfectly snug, as were the hotels when I wasn't based in a flat.
Again you choose to ignore people's point, that the further inland in Spain you go (especially at altittude) the colder it gets in winter. In northern Spain you're more likely to see snow some years than in England. If you don't believe me, please visit one of the following cities in December through to March - Burgos, Leon, Segovia, Soria, Cuenca or Teruel.
The cold weather payment does not differentiate between people living in colder homes and those in warmer places. If it did, perhaps those in London (a bigger population than all of Scotland!) would no longer qualify?
Of course all of this is academic. It looks increasingly likely that the government will chop this benefit, when they introduce the new pensions system.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

Perhaps that's because you weren't old & frail so didn't feel the cold :rofl:

If this benefit is getting scrapped then good, trust me m8 I know about cold weather. I was in Alberta for the coldest winter in decades (-51'c) & had a trip to Moscow in Novemeber where I couldn't even pee because my genitalia shrank so much.

I don't dispute that Spain get's chilly during the winter months, what I do dispute is that the Spanish winter will kill OAP's like it does in Britain!

Re: winter fuel payment
 

You're just making me laugh now :rofl:
You clearly dont have a very nice circle of friends then if you have made such a huge generalised assumption.

The fact remains that the majority of pensioners on here have contributed all their lives to a system that allows them benefits when they reach that retirement age. The fact that we take them doesnt make us "not the nicest people in the world".

So theres nothing wrong with what they are doing. I agree that pensioners arent going to die here regularly because of the cold, but the fact remains that it gets cold here in Spain in the winter. We have to have the wood fire burning and often the heaters on. We choose to claim what is our right and are not embarrassed to do so.

I feel very sad that you are running expats down again just because of this thread, and really wonder why you are here if you feel so badly about us

Re: winter fuel payment
 

You could have a point there .... maybe OAP's in Spain should get an allowance during the hottest months to help with the electric bills for fan useage to enable them to cool down :thumbsup: They've certainly paid enough into the system and are entitled to get something back.

Re: winter fuel payment
 

What am I supposed to do, sit under a duvet all day long!!!!! Get real. Most people in Scotland and UK have their nice central heating working and their fitted carpets. Not an option here - fuel allowance is needed.