Judequinn

Hi,

I live in Barcelona, but work in Norway. I work 2 weeks, and spend about 4 weeks in Barcelona -- rinse and repeat. I pay tax to the Norwegian tax authorities. I have no real estate in Norway, or anything else that ties me there, except for the job. In a normal year, I would spend about 3 months working in Norway, and the remainder in Spain.

This year, I will spend less than 183 days in Spain, so I guess I won't have to pay tax to Spain? Even if I get a residencia/NIE? If I get the residencia, will I have to file a tax declaration, even though I spend less than 183 days here? How does it work, in order to "prove" that I'm not tax eligable in Spain, as I spend less than 183 days there?

In a normal year, the rules from the double tax treaty between Norway and Spain will kick in, as I will be tax resident in both countries. But what about this year? I moved to Spain in febraury.


Cheers.

Rosemary

As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.

BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Judequinn

Thanks, but it doesn't really answer my question.

Fred James

You will only become tax resident for 2014 if you exceed the 183 days. Registering on the list of foreigners or having an NIE are not relevant.

You would only need to "prove" that you were not resident if the tax office queried your status and then it would be up to you to provide evidence that you were not in Spain for the relevant period.

Judequinn

Thank you, but I don't quite follow:

So I can get a residency certificate (or an NIE, checking off as 'resident')? Won't this give me a tax number, so that I have to file a tax return?

When I apply for residencia, can I somehow tell them in the application that I am staying less than 183 days? How will this work out with my tax return?

Judequinn

... Could a solution be to get an NIE a non-resident? To dodge the whole Spanish tax?

It can't be that easy ... can it?

Fred James

There is no such think as "residencia" any more for EU and EEA citizens. You are allowed free movement within the EU, but after 90 days you "may" be obliged to register your intention to overstay the 90 days that you are allowed as a "tourist". This applies in Spain and you have to register.

There is no way that this action is in any way connected with your tax residency status.

Your NIE is in fact a fiscal ID number but again it has nothing to do with tax residency.

Judequinn

Ok, thanks. So how can they know that I'm staying for more than 183 days? I mean, how do I tax register?

Can just get an NIE, stating that I want to stay for social reasons, and don't care about spanish taxes? Is there a guide somewhere for this minefield?


Thanks again.

snikpoh

If you need to show this 'certificate' then it will need renewing every 3 months. Some offices are a bit against re-issuing them on the basis that you are probably resident.

The green certificate of residency is COMMONLY referred to as a 'residencia' which is where there is a lot of confusion. The old residency card was done away with many years ago and was also known as a residencia - hence some confusion.

As to the tax situation, the onus is very much on YOU to prove that you are here for less than 183 days (and not the other way around). So, if you are questioned, just make sure that you can prove where you have been.

Judequinn

Thanks so much!

Is there a "guide" for the Spanish tax-return? Do I 'tick off' somewhere that I'm staying for less than 183 days, and if they question it I'll just hand them the evidence?

I.e. I am paid by a Norwegian contractor for my job on the oil rigs, and I am also self-emplyed with an office location in Norway. Work involving oil will alwasy ahve to be taxed to Norway, so I guess even when I do become a tax resident in Spain (which will happen over the next couple of years), I will have to write this Norwegian tax of my Spanish tax.

Will I just have to fill out a blank form basically, as I am not tax-resident in Spain? Will I have to fill out my numbers?

I know I can get a gestor or an accountant to do my taxes, but I really like to know what's happening behind the curtains. We have these "Tax payers handbook" and other tax law books on the Norwegian system, published by various money people -- anything similar on Spanish taxes?

Sorry for the storm of questions

Fred James

It's simple. If you are tax resident then you submit a tax return.

If you are not, you don't.


If, in the extremely unlikely event, that Hacienda says you are tax resident when you are not, you would have to prove it.

Hacienda publishes a guide to your tax declaration. It is 750 pages in Spanish - I suggest you don't go there unless you want a serious headache!

Blevins Franks have a guide you can download

http://www.blevinsfranks.com/Spain?g...Faoewwod5SEAbQ

Better still, buy their book

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Blevins-Fr.../7767066904/bd

Judequinn

Thank you so much! Now I have one less thing to worry about on my "becoming Spanish" list. Got internet, utilities, apartment and bank account, now I just need my NIE and "residenica".

athos88

There's also a function on the Agencia Tributaria's website which allows the user to get a printed certificate which accredits that they are a tax resident.

EsuriJohn

Do you have a link?