Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Hi all

Having been now in Mallorca for 6 months, and having lived in UK, USA, Germany and Austria, here are some observations!

1) Why have they made registering a car, which takes 10 minutes everywhere else, so complicated that you have to employ someone to register the car for you? How can they justify the need for an engineer's inspection and MOT for a 6 month old vehicle?

Result - Everyone drives on foreign plates!

2) Why are you made to feel privileged if you can obtain an ADSL connection? How can a wait of 2 years be normal in this day and age? If you do get one eventually, it is arguably the slowest ADSL in the World. Hardly the 16MB standards now throughout the rest of Europe.

Result - No one can do any business online!

3) Why are the IVA regulations so bizarre? A friend of mine has a business in Palma. I was going to PC City and offered to pick up a backup drive for him. A whopping Euro 99. To do that, I had to take some sort of certificate to do with his business with me. I could not go through the the normal checkout, I had to go to some desk at the back of the store and it took the operator about 20 minutes to produce the necessary paperwork, which I then took to the cash desk and had authenticated. Now my friend will be able to claim back the iva!

Result - Everyone works for cash! You can't get a receipt for anything. Any work that you want done at home is paid cash. If you ask for a receipt you just get very strange looks!

4) Add to which, it seems that just about everyone sells their homes using two contracts. One for the official amount, and one for the cash bit! Unbelievable that millions of Euros are going untaxed!

Result - I bet those tax officials are still concerned about giving back the 14 Euros iva on that tape back up!!

5) How come supermarkets only have two choices of milk? Normal, or skimmed. I guess the skimmed version is about 6 or 7%. Anyway, on 50% of the visits to the supermarket, they have sold out of skimmed but have a milk mountain of the full fat variety!

And, sticking on the subjects of supermarkets, why do they feel it necessary to offer about 50 different varities of bottled water, occupying 2 rows of supermarket fixtures, but such a limited choice of other products?

I am dreaming of Marks and Spencers and Tesco!!

Martin

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Because its Spain.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Personally I am glad it's different. I know it must be frustrating if you are living there, but anything to ward off this blasted global uniformity. Why go live in Spain then expect Tescos and Marks and Spencers ??
Vive le Difference!!!

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Yes, well, if it was just the supermarkets, I wouldn't have started the thread.

My advice would be, rent a property for a while before you buy.

If the demand from people buying property abates, and this is something that Spain has relied upon for many years, I don't see a switched on dynamic economy waiting to take over.

Martin

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Welcome to Spain Martin! Yes all the above and more - but think of all the stories you can dine out with after a few more years of this type of madness.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I will always remember my problems with SUMA on the Costa Blanca - it was absolutely horrific.
Andalucia was much easier to have all the utilities set up and paid.
Is SUMA still difficult to deal with nowadays?

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Your'e living on a island

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I was just using your example. Perhaps as part of the group of people who love visiting Spain as an escape from the rat race I have an idyllic view of the place. It's the old argument about wanting to retain the tranquil lifestyle of Pedro and his donkey, while Pedro would love a modern flat with broadband etc. In the large cities yes. Living in London, for eg, I know that I can expect the very latest in medical care from hospitals like Kings and Guys but would never expect the same in Spain. Hope this doesn't sound patronising or confrontational...just an observation.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

The rent before you buy advice is usually past on,on this forum,as well as allways do your homework on the area, and country.You seem to be a travelled person so you must know that the country is there to be adapted to,not the other way about,you made your bed,I am sorry to harp on,but why moan Spain is Spain and lots of us love it,when you buy in a village you cant expect a supermarket,as for water you cant live without it,and your surrounded by it.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

all the supermarkets I've been in over here have desnatada, semidesnatada, and entera milk for sale, so no problems there, as to SUMA, well I pay it, and haven't had any problems, it just disappears from my bank account and I get a receipt. ADSL had little in the way of problems, OK had to wait about 3 months to get it, but I suspect that was mainly due to NOT contacting the right peopel and trying to go through Telefonica in English to start with. Not being in business can't talk about IVA, and as to importation of cars, it takes longer and costs more and there has to be an inspection BECAUSE the authorities insist that the car is unmodified from the manufacturers specifictions, so there has to be a check, and that a car only 2 days old could have been modified.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

[QUOTE=mrcusa;4429645]
3) Why are the IVA regulations so bizarre? A friend of mine has a business in Palma. I was going to PC City and offered to pick up a backup drive for him. A whopping Euro 99. To do that, I had to take some sort of certificate to do with his business with me. I could not go through the the normal checkout, I had to go to some desk at the back of the store and it took the operator about 20 minutes to produce the necessary paperwork, which I then took to the cash desk and had authenticated. Now my friend will be able to claim back the iva




Luckily I have completed accepted the fact that buying practically anything in Spain can take at least 1/2 day. I had been looking for a brick BBQ for the garden for months, I refused to pay the 400 - 600 euros I was being quoted for what I wanted. One day last year I heard that the local builders yard had what I wanted for 180 euros so off I dashed. Sure enough outside the office was what I wanted, waited 35 mins whilst the lady in the office fussed around trying to located the product number for it; then she told me they had none in stock and that they would not be getting anymore so I asked if I could have the one on display. Well you would have thought that I was asking for the tiles off the roof not the last BBQ they had in stock. I could not possible have that one as what would they use for the display model, I pointed out there was not going to be anymore as it was the end of the line. No could not have it, she phoned their main branch in Chiclana Town and was told they could help me there.

Arrived at the main branch, now my Spanish is not very good at all and by good fortune there was someone working at the store that spoke perfect English and Spanish who came with me to the counter that dealt with the BBQ's, but after nearly an hour of looking in books and typing away at a keyboard and making 4 phone calls we were still no nearer to buying the BBQ (which was on display in the middled of the shop). In the end the lady that was helping look at me and put her head in her hands, she said that she just could not understand why eveything is so difficult, the BBQ had a product number on it, they had found it in the book, typed the number into the PC, yes it was in stock - where is the problem. After we got it all sort we then realised that it had no metal inside to it, we had to go through all the same to get that added to the invoice.

This shop is not a small one man business it is most probably the biggest building suppliers in the area, you would thing that they would have a system in place that meant you could just go in and buy what you want within a few minutes especially if it is on display. I know for a fact that if I was in the UK I would most probably walked out of the shop after about 15 mins but here in Chiclana, well that's the way it is done. In all fairness I have to say the benefits were not negative as we got free delivery and have had some fantastic meals cooked on it.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

[QUOTE=crispygirl;4433456]Now how many times in Britain have you been told that the display model is the last one and no it cannot be sold ?? I have.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

well.....last week in a very large DIY store we found what we were looking for, but as you say crispy girl last one on display and no we can not have it ........ my other half wouldnt accept that .........he walked over to another assitant, who got a screw driver took it off display and on to our trolly.... now what was the big deal .......... One said NO the other said YES .......can not for the life of me understand why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

[QUOTE=poollounger;4433462]More than once I have been able to buy the display model when it has been the end of line, back in the UK, otherwise shops would be full of one off's never to be sold. Madness if shops anywhere in the world are not willing to sell off the last one, I mean what will they do with them, send them to the little shop in the sky for last ones left:confused:

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

We are in the process of having our car registered, what a nightmare!

It went to the ITV station and failed on the paperwork (we are paying a gestor to do it for us). Why?

Well on the paperwork it said it had 5/7 seats. It's got 7. Now the guy in the ITV place said that's not correct - the paperwork says 5 or 7.

The paperwork didn't specify how much it weighed. He asked us. How are we supposed to know? We've never weighed it!

They even measured it! (How do you alter the length/width/height/axle width of a car?).

We had to remove the towbar before we went as we had nothing to say where it had been fitted (in the factory, but it didn't say it anywhere).

I wouldn't mind if it was some sort of obscure marque, but it is a Seat - made in Spain!:eek:

AND it's going to cost us £1000 euros to do it.

Totally agree with OP, the totally unneccessary and complicated bureaucracy is the one thing I hate about Spain.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I am moving to Majorca , and being honest i agree with poollounger , I would be annoyed to see a Marks and Spencers ( clothes to expensive and out of touch anyways !) and a Tesco , i like the idea of it being different .

Hate the way people whinge about such trivial matters .. I like the idea of living there way , get to know the little Spanish owners support them by spending with them and generaly contributing at a street level , rather than a tesco type set up where money earnt in one town is spent elsewhere in the world !

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Well, looking for bathroom fittings we were frustrated by the high prices in Corte Inglese and the smart bathroom showrooms. Didn't care for the cheaper ranges. Then we found Milan. It was their sale and they were literally unscrewing the stuff off the display panels...last one of each model. Two furnished bathrooms at a budget.;)

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

You are so right!!!

It is the complicated bureaucracy which has no logic whatsoever. If it was designed to drive you loopy, it could not be better.

As for the other replies, I am not suggesting that M&S or Tesco open up here tomorrow, I was just commenting on how poor the supermarkets here are compared with the UK. Let me change that. They are crap compared with Germany and France. Is that better?

Take the sun away here and you are not left with much.

Just my opinion, and my apartment is on the market right now!

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Whats the biggest supermarket chain in France?.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Maybe we all expect different things from supermarkets, but I think the supermarkets even in a small town like Chiclana are much more enticing. I am always disappointed when I return home. Where can you find a fish counter like the ones we have in Spanish supermarkets ? The quality of the fruit and veg.. the wine may be mostly Spanish but look at the range and prices..the meat is better quality too. I am disgusted when I look at the prices. Yes the quality in a store like Waitrose is good, but prices are shocking compared to Spain.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

The market in the centre of Chicalana,is better than the supermarkets,but the supermarkets are well stocked with good products,and plenty of fresh milk,was not like that when I firit arrived.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I am pretty sure it is Carrefour, I also happen to think that Carrefour is one of the better supermarkets here in Spain; they offer much more in the way of choice and I think the quality is pretty good. If I am buying fresh bread from a supermarket then this is the place for me.

Having said that I was shopping on Monday in the local one to us and I had a moment by the bread display, I just started blabbering like a 2 year saying I was fed up with the sameness of everything in the supermarkets. OH was a bit shocked as he thought I was telling him I wanted to go back to the UK I had to quickly tell him that was not the case, but said he understood. I think it is just winter blues and I'll get over it.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I agree with you, supermarket shopping was very restricted when we first started to come to Chiclana it has come on leaps and bounds in the last four years. We try and buy as much as we can from the market in town as it is much cheaper for fruit and veg, but have to be honest and say I have not found that much difference in the price of meant and fish from some of the supermarkets. Mercadona fish is very often cheaper than some of the fish stalls in town and can be of pretty good quality.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Thats what I thought also,and there is one in Mallorca,so the best supermarket in France,is there in Mallorca ,Martin.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I agree with the price things cost, I like Waitrise but goodness they are expensive fine for peeps like me and other half when we had two incomes but I don't think I could have afforded to shop there when the family were all at home. OH and I love wine and think Spanish is one of the finest but I do get a little yearning occassionally for a something different, notice Lidl had Australian in stock last week, and have been thinking of a good New Zealand wine for months now. Love going to shopping in Portugal when we visit friends, there local superstore has a good select of world wide wines and they even had New Zealand was thrilled when I found it.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

So it's an awful thought that Tesco or M&S open here, but Carrefour fine?

I know that Carrefour is leaps and bounds ahead of any Spanish supermarket, and you can see by the car park that people agree.

But, why is it necessary to drive 50kms to get to a decent grocery store?

I do often drive to Carrefour, sometimes I am lucky to get a choice of the three punnets of blueberries they have, sometimes they have none. At least I save the 5 euros. I happen to like blueberries though, and I am told they they are very healthy. In ASDA, Sainsburys etc. they are always available in a good size punnet, and at max £1.50.

I like the fresh soups. Wide choice in UK, Germany etc. here in Carrefour we have Asparagus.

Sometimes I like ready made meals for convenience. Wide choice in UK, here we have pizzas.

Martin

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

For meat, fish and fruit and veg you can't beat the local markets. You really have to watch the sell by dates in all of the supermarkets including Carrefour and Mercadona, I have seen things still on display for sale with dates over a week old.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

The EC and vehicle manufacturers agreed on a document called a Certificate of Conformity. Idea was that a vehicle suitable for purpose in Germany for example, could be considered suitable for purpose in all the other EC Countries. It is like a uniform set of regualtions applying to vehicles in the EC.

This works really well from Preston to Mannheim to Toulouse, but not Madrid. In Spain, it is not considered lunacy to charge an EC citizen Euro 300 to measure his or her 2 day old vehicle!!

As Spain has benefitted more than most countries from EC handouts, particularly to build roads, please excuse me for thinking that their behaviour is bizarre.

Martin

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Problem with bringing UK plated vehicles into another EU country is that they ALL have to be modified as the headlight clusters have to be altered from RHD to LHD, I'm sure none of us want to be totally blinded by cars because that hasn't been done, so they have to be checked by an inspector to see that that has been correctly done. From any other EU country no such change is needed. Here in Sapin they check your vehicle documents everytime you have something done at a garage, which certainly never happens in the UK, even getting a new wheel for my Spanish Clio, they wanted to see the registration document.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

We have already had the lights done, it didn't fail on those.

Just the silly paperwork!

We also have a scooter that we bought brand new, in Spain, from a Spanish dealer. Even the paperwork for this took over a week to be registered. The reason given was that we'd bought it in Almeria province but lived in Granada province, so therefore that created an extra layer of paperwork.:eek:

I really do think that someone up there in Madrid has a job trying to make the bureacracy as complicated, time consuming and confusing as it is possible for it to be.

Just want to add though that in general I love being here in Spain and the Spanish are terrific. It's only this crippling bureaucracy I can't stand.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Funny isn't it, the OH and I have just been discussing bread and can't wait to get back to Chiclana next month to buy and eat the multi seeded bread in Mercadona . We find it to be much superior to anything you can get in UK supermarkets. The closest here appears to be Warburtons seeded batch but it still isn't a patch on that in Mercadona.

As to supermarkets in Germany two of the largest are Lidl and Aldi both to be found in profusion in Spain. It was not all that long ago I read that Walmart (ASDA's parent company pulled out of Germany because their level of service with meeters and greeters didn't appeal to the Germans who preferred the no frills approach of supermarkets such as Lidl and Aldi.

I also read that Carrefoures and Tesco went head to head in the Far East and Tesco pulled out with their tail between their legs. Its horses for courses really and I can't count the number of people I meet in Spain who had never dreamt of going into a Lidl's or Aldi supermarket in the UK but swear by them in Spain. Am I not also right in thinking that the Champion supermarket in Chiclana, near Macdonalds, was a small offshoot of Carrefoures?

I think that distance lends enchantment because one of my pets hates in our local Tesco branch is their bread is always a couple of days older, or so it seems, than that of ASDA in Poole which is always much fresher.

But we really do like that bread in Mercadona.

Regards

Jim






A

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

My car is a new LHD BMW 320 collected near Munich!

So, they have to measure it??????????????

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Yep!

AND you'd better know how much it weighs!

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I think the best bread I have found in Spain is an organic brown loaf in Carrefour. Must say that I have never tried Mercadonna, or Lidl or Aldi in Spain. In Britain they are variable..in some areas truly spartan and basic, in others quite different. However Aldi in Germany is somethng else. In Frankfurt I ended up shopping nowhere else. The range was astonishing. Smoked salmon and Gravadlax. The cheeses, the bread, the wine. I guess the Germans have higher expectations, so they are forced into catering for them. In Britain not so, though I am glad to say that it is changing rapidly.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

I like the Mercadona bread too.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

[QUOTE=Bigger Jim;4437695]Funny isn't it, the OH and I have just been discussing bread and can't wait to get back to Chiclana next month to buy and eat the multi seeded bread in Mercadona . We find it to be much superior to anything you can get in UK supermarkets. The closest here appears to be Warburtons seeded batch but it still isn't a patch on that in Mercadona.


You only have to look at me to see how much bread I eat, I have never eaten as much bread as I do here in Chiclana. My very thin sister is always telling me off about the amount of bread I eat, but she makes me laugh when she is out here because she will eat a whole fresh loaf of the stuff to herself given half the chance.

Order of Preference for fresh bread:Carrefour, Mercadona, Supersol; please don't get me started about the bread shops in La Barrosa.......I think I need full elasticated waist instead of half elasticated:D

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

It's nice to be able to get fresh bread from the petrol stations as well. I must admit I don't care where I shop as most places have fish, fruit and veggies and I don't eat packet or tinned food so I'm easily pleased. I also don't cook very often, so eat out all the time, and as long as there are healthy options I'm a happy bunny.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Better get it independantly weighed. You can trust what BMW says can you?

It will be interesting to see if it has gained any weight since it was manufactured.

If it is full of diesel I could give myself all sorts of issues couldn't I?

Is it best to remove the CD's before it is weighed?

My this really is crucial!!

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

My husband said if ours was too high he was going to let the tyres down.

Make sure the paperwork says which side the steering wheel is on (seriously!). What size the tyres are too.

Re: Why is everything so complicated for negative benefit?
 

Its the easiest way to tell if its had modifications by measuring, IE : lowered suspension, or wide wheels, or larger wheels, or different bumpers, or tow bars etc.