bil

But my point is, that this rotten wood wrote the bible, this rotten wood created the concept of Jesus from Mitras, just like they stole the midwinter solstice and easter with the young god dying on the tree.

They tell you god is jealous, they tell you that Jesus is all, and to be blunt, continued belief in that is a bit like someone believing that Ronald McDonald and Colonel Saunders were/are real people.

scampicat

Look, all this is just your opinion.

Why does it matter so much to you whether people believe in God.?

And nowhere have I said that there are not similarities to Christianity in other religions (in fact I think I said in my first post that all religions had some of the truth); nor have I claimed Christmas and Easter for Christianity, I too believe they are Pagan festivals, especially as Jesus was probably born sometime in April. The shepherds would hardly have been out on the hills at night with their sheep in December, even in that part of the world, now would they?


I don't actually wish to discuss it any more. I have tried to answer as honestly as I know how. You are not separating the man-made 'church' from the God-made faith which we call Christianity. You do not understand, nor do you really want to.

If you take this as me chickening out, sobeit. It is not, but no way will i convince you of that.

See you around on other discussions.

Dick Dasterdly

Unfortunately bil you seem to have the same old problem of repeating the same old record about paedo priests, bent bishops and all the other negative factors of which no doubt we are all by now fully aware.
You appear to be unable to seperate them from those who have no direct connection with such things, or possibly even the church itself, and simply live their lives based on the simple decent beliefs which coincide with basic Christian principles, though to be fair you at least do seem to fully grasp the one about not bearing false witness, so maybe there is still some hope for you yet.

bil

Oh I have no objection to what people believe in, tho I do think that passing on such beliefs to children is wrong. There should be no indoctrination, political or religious untill they are at least 16 and deemed mature enough to make their own decisions.

I'm merely putting forward the suggestion, that after you have stripped away all that is rotten, is the rest worth saving? Isn't that just the fruit of a poisoned tree?

The last time I had a serious discussion in this field, it was suggested to me that an Alpha course would solve my problems. I assume by that they meant the problems such as independant thought and critical reasoning. Funnily the wife of a good friend happened to mention that she had been on just such a course, so I asked her what it was like, since she never struck me as one who would go gentle into that good night.

She said that at the beginning when she asked questions she was told she didn't need to ask them at that point. When she repeated the questions later, she was told that she shouldn't ask questions like that, and shortly after she left by mutual consent, it was that she mustn't ask questions like that.

Ah well. I always hold onto the hope that someone like you will come up with something insightful and interesting.

bil

Ahhh, Dick, Dick, Dick. You are a bit like someone who says 'Hey, why go on about the Jews in the so-called death camps. More like holiday camps they were, and hardly any Jews died except by accident, so why do you keep going on like that. There were some perfectly decent chaps in the German army........

If you belonged to the golf club, and you discoverd that the executive committee was using it as a front for child abuse, what would you do?

Well, me I would call the police on the bastards, and I would tear up my membership so fast I'd burn my fingers.

You tho, well, from what you say, I suspect that you'd stay a member and not want the club to close, even tho every single official was either up to it or implicit in it, because some of the members are jolly good chaps, and you wouldn't want the trouble of driving to another club.

I guess you and I are very different types, that's all.

scampicat

I know I said I wouldn't contribute again, but I must answer this.

If I found out that a prominent leader in my church was abusing children/and or covering up those who did, with no-one doing anything about it, I would tear up my membership to that church.

I would NOT tear up my membership to Christinaity!

We had a paedophile (a member of the congregation, not a leader) in our church, many years ago. We (including the church leaders) didn't know he was a paedo until some years later after he had moved on. We thought he was just a mixed-up teenager (he was that, as well). Luckily he was only young at the time and none of our kids were harmed. But we found out later he had joined the church in order to 'groom' them.

Should I have left my church, denied Christianity because this happened? Should I have taken any action at all?

Dick Dasterdly

Yeh, the difference is that after informing the police I'd likely move to a different golf club.

You'd likely cut your nose off to spite your face, and never play golf again.

bil

I'd say that you manage to place a nice distinction there.

I'm not talking about a member of the congregation.

I'm talking about the entire heirarchy. Still I'm sure Dick will able to point out that despite the barrel being rotten to the core, there are still a few good apples in it.

Dick Dasterdly

You can't have it both ways bil, if the whole barrel is rotten to the core, then it's obvious even to me, that there's no hope for any of them.
However if the whole of the barrel isn't rotten, then it may well still contain some good ones.

Knowing your likely interpretation, maybe you'd never ever eat another apple again.

bil

Ahaha. Dear me you are simply so sharp, my dear, it's a miracle you don't cut yourself.

Well, let's see. Me, if I can smell the stink from some distance away, I think I'll pass up on the chance of an apple, if from the smell I reckon all I'll get is a handful of filth. I guess I'd liken it to the odds of reaching into an arab toilet and pulling out a chicken sandwich.

You are more than welcome to reach in on the off chance, and do tell me this. Should you pull out a chicken sandwich, do you really want it , knowing where it's been?

bil

Oh yes, another point for those unable to swallow the religious stuff without choking.

One of the things police look for, when seeing if someone is telling the truth or not, is simplicity.

An honest alibi tends to have that. It is is simple, straightforward and verifiable.

The complex and contradictory stories tend to point to vast untruths.

Now look at the religious stories. They get more and more complex. You have to explain why an innocent newborn child dies a horrible death. Oooo, give me a minute,...... ummmm...lessee, oh yes, original sin.

Your prayers aren't answered? Good people suffer and bad ones do well? Oooooo... ummm..... god moves in a mysterious way.

What's that? the priest is buggering your children?

Dick says it's OK, that was yesterday's news and no-one is interested in hearing stale news.

agoreira

I have two lots of neighbours that are both very religious, including the teenage girls, and they all go off to church every Sunday without fail. Me, I haven't a religious bone in my body, but we get on great, I don't see any of them as potential paedos, I see them as nice people, as nice families. They have never mentioned religion to me ever, we accept each other for what we are, and that when it comes to religion, we have different opinions. I'm perfectly happy to have them as our neighbours.

bil

There's no real need to segregate yourself from people simply thru differences like that. I have some religious friends, but I'd have to say the more secular they are the more I have in common with them.

I remember exchanging emails once with an english woman who had gone to live in the US. We were discussing evolution vs creationism, and I said to her 'Surely you can't believe in creationism?' Her reply was 'No, of course not, but if I dared to say that here, I'd have no friends left.'

Dick Dasterdly

NOW WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT ??????????

If you check my previous posts on numerous threads you will see that nobody has condemned paedo priests anymore than I have.

Are you suffering so badly from black and white vision and lack of a logical reply, that you need to scrape the very bottom of the barrel ?

bil

By no means. I just watched you down there and thought you looked lonely