stuboy

What would happen if it was decided to scrap all farming subsidies overnight.

The EU spends over 50bn a year and the UK a few quid of own.

Apart from the French Farmers turning out in brand new tractors to block the ports and half the Cotswold gentry having a cuppa in Parliament Square.

Why should farming be any different to any other industry?

Is the NFU too powerful?

An awful lot of difference could be made in other areas with an extra 50 odd billion.

Domino

could you afford to eat ??

cricketman

Then you may find that the rich crop and farming diversity in Europe would be lost

And in 20 years we would be growing mainly palm oil and GM corn. And we would be living on a diet of breakfast cereals and beefburgers...

Have a look at the US or Brazilian agri sector for clues. They are hugely efficient, but entirely soul-less

la mancha

If the EU stopped fraud in their subsidies for the farming sector this 50bn would drop dramatically.

stuboy

Given the amount of rich crop we import from outside the EU would we really notice much difference.

90% plus of our spices come from outside the EU would they be affected?

God knows how much of our fruit and veg comes from outside as well so I think your prediction is rather off the mark

stuboy

Great contribution Dom.

The answer is yes

Domino

using EU "practicality" if you withdraw the Farm Subsidy then you will have to withdraw the Preferred Supplier List for those outside the EU who deliver food from outside the EU without any Tariff surcharges.
But that would cause a row with those countries who have old agreements with old colonies who can only exist with those agreements.

and because you can afford it doesn't mean the man and his family next door can, especially if prices rise

amideislas

Our neighbour gets paid NOT to harvest almonds in his 100000M groves. He doesn't have any interest in almond farming and doesnt need the money, but he's entitled to it, so he may as well take it.

Domino

In the same way as when Greece was allowed to join the EU the locals made claims for olive production that included land that was absolutely vertical, was 100% rock with no soil, was under the sea twice a day (high tides), or was actually under the sea 100% of the time.
It took several years for the investigators to work that one out, having been nudged by the Olive Producers Organisations that when when it smelled like a fish it could well be a fish.

The fact that the EU didn't push too hard for repayment is part of the reason why their books haven't balanced for over 17 years


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stuboy

On what level can this ever be justified. If the market does want/need anymore almonds and his subsidy was stopped I bet he'd soon come up with another crop that was in demand.

Can no one in the realms of EU officialdom do anything to stop this monstrous waste of money?

rugbymatt

New Zealand produce lamb with no subsidies and send it to us at a cheaper price than Welsh lamb....

Dick Dasterdly

The NFU has virtually zero clout these days.

UK farmers simply go along with whatever subsidies and restrictions are agreed or imposed on them by Brussels.
UK farmers would be least affected by reductions in subsidies because they are generally much more efficient than their EU counterparts.

French farmers have by far the most political clout because there are so many of them either directly or indirectly reliant on EU subs to keep them afloat, which to a large degree has resulted from the widespread fragmentation of land due to ancient Napoleonic laws which still apply today to the best of my knowledge.


There has been some shocking abuse and misuse of EU agric subs, nowhere more so than here in Spain.
As is the norm here quite a lot has found it's way into less than honest hands with false claims and phoney projects.
In many cases overproduction has been encouraged as a result of big business greed to cash in on the subs, while some of the small guys who most needed help ended up out of business.

Domino

quite simply - No
what is it to them, products have been grown in particular areas for generations/centuries
if you had an almond orchard that was started by your 5 times back grandfather why would you want to stop growing almonds and start growing olives ??
after all it will take min 10 years to reach a point where the olives produced are acceptable size/quality.
who pays the ferryman for those 10+ years ??

lets be honest - the EU is a conglomoration of disparate countries all pulling in different directions for very good reason.
just it isn't convenient for the paper pushers in Brussels/Luxembourg/Brussels/Luxembourg ad infinitum

you can't stop almond farmers from growing almonds just because it isn't "convenient" in the same way as you can't stop growers of olives.

it is the EU office staff that are the waste of money, many almond and olive farmers would rather they were allowed to carry on growing what they know rather than be told every decade to change because "statistics" say they should.

amideislas

My neighbour's family (and his land) were almond producers for generations. According to him, in the 80's, California almond farms became incredibly large and efficient, dropping the price of almonds far below what they could produce them for. As a result, a subsidy was introduced for almond producers who were unable to compete. If they simply don't harvest and market the almonds, they are entitled to a subsidy. My neighbour says his family stopped production in the late 80's, sold off their equipment, and as he is the sole survivor and inheritor of the property, he has been "entitled" to the subsidy ever since.

As Dom pointed out, the ideology behind it is to prevent farmers from going broke because of "unfair" competition. Unfortunately, like most social programs, over a few decades they become "entitlements" rather than "support", and thusly become a lifestyle rather than an "opportunity" to reorganise the business.

Ironically, last summer I noticed a few almond harvester machines shaking the almonds from his trees (a rather interesting invention in itself). So, I asked him about it, and he said he'd given "permission" to a "friend" to harvest the almonds for his own use. But somehow I question whether a quarter million kilos of almonds would qualify as a quantity that a "friend" would use for personal use. I reckon there's probably a little double-dipping going on there.

But that's just how it is. Part of the "charm" I reckon.

crookesey

In the UK there are a lot of small holdings that could be put to shame be Tom and Barbara's efforts in The Good Life. They all appear to have up to 12 sheep, 4/6 pigs, circa 12 hens and a cockerel, many also fatten up a few bullocks.

I understand that EU grants are payable to these 'farmers', living on the edge of the countryside I also notice quite a lot of movement of stock from one small holding to another. Far be it for me to make accusations but could these guys be 'stocking up' for an EU grant inspection?