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I was watching CNN and their medical specialist has made an about turn on cannabis

http://www.businessinsider.com/sanja...on-weed-2013-8

There are some compelling reasons for using cannabis....

I am not a 'user' but I am all for MEDICINAL use of it....

A few years back, I had a hernia in my back, the pain was intense at times, after much cajoling from a friend and constant pain, I relented and was willing to try anything at that stage.... After a lifetime of being 'anti-drug'.

The pain relief was virtually instantaneous, and significant.

I wont hesitate to take it if in the future I have that level of pain.

Does that mean I am a bad person?

Jon

PS they have even named a new strain of it after the CNN guy who has gone public!!!
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/theres...182122166.html.

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No, you are not a bad person - but IMO you wouldn't be if you used it for recreational purposes, either ! (I don't myself, but have no objection to others doing so).

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No doubt there are benefits to be had from it for those who really need it.

On the other hand it must not be forgotten that a hell of a lot of addicts end up in the Psyche wards.

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I agree and also the evil that comes from the drug trade is awful!

Thats why I say legalise it, put some proper pharmaceutical controls around it, make it safe and take away one source of income from the drug lords and their gangs.

I have no problems with it for recreational purposes either, but I wonder if all the bad press about it, is making us lose a huge medical benefit... Or delaying it too long.

Thats why its good to see CNN investigating it properly, and objectively....

Jon

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My view to a tee. I can't believe that these pharmaceutical giants can't harness the innate properties of cannabis to provide a prescription alternative. Perhaps it's too cheap to grow/manufacture? And therefore cannot command the exhorbitant prices they charge the NHS and directly or indirectly the public.

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Lots of work has been done in that area and some products have been approved in some countries. There's loads of money to be made from it. The obstacles seem to be prejudice and genuine problems with harmful side effects.

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There have always been problems with allowing people to use mind-altering substances, from alcohol to sleeping pills to cocaine and cannabis.

I wouldn't have a tooth extracted without a cocaine injection and the last time I was in hospital I was medically knocked out to take the pain away.

I've tried cannabis and the world looked a much better place after a couple of spliffs, but I've also come across many sad addicts injecting all sorts of shit into their bodies and dying from it.

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Iran apparently has the highest percentage of drug use in the world. ...and sex crimes, too... Has perhaps the strictest anti-drug laws in the world.

The UK comes in at #2 (somehow not terribly surprising).

Holland apparently has a remarkably low usage/addiction rate, and very low rate of sex crimes. Doesn't even show up in the top 30.
Isn't that ironic?

Highest drug use countries

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The numbers are rather confusing in the way they are displayed.

95,000,00 does that mean there are no decimal parts of a person adicted?

Or 192,9000

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It's not even a fraction of the people being treated for psychological problems brought about through alcohol abuse. I've said this time and time again on here, if Alcohol was recently discovered and the inventor was waiting for GMC clearance to begin selling it then it wouldn't even be licensed it's so full of toxins and potential harm.


I have, in my past, been involved with the police in a rather negative aspect and I can tell you now, the Police are sick and tired of the time cannabis takes up compared to other crimes, it's pointless, it serves no purpose, the "War on drugs" is lost, it was lost generations ago, the only sensible course to take is to legalise it and begin taxing it. Just imagine how ludicrous it sounds that we have a system in place whereby something that kills about 100,000 a year (smoking) and something that kills around 20,000 (alcohol) is perfectly legal yet something that has no recorded deaths directly from it is illegal.

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I largely agree with the previous post.

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So do I.

Did anyone see the recent announcement by the author Lee Child that he has used cannabis daily for more than 40 years?

Yes, use of cannabis by people who already have a genetic predisposition to certain forms of mental illness can increase their risk of developing such illnesses. Excessive use of cannabis by very young people can be harmful to them.

Use of alcohol by those who have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism is a bad idea too. So is binge drinking by young teenagers. And tobacco smoking is potentially harmful not only to those who partake themselves but also to those around them.

Many people who think cannabis users are "addicted" fail to take account of the fact that it's actually nicotine they are addicted to if they smoke it in spliffs with tobacco. I have known people who have found that the "cravings" disappear if they use cannabis/marijuana in other ways eg smoke it in a pipe, with a herbal tobacco substitute,use a vaporiser or eat it in cakes or some other form. That's if they can kick the nicotine habit. Nicotine is actually the most addictive drug there is.

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There is no doubt that we would all live longer without smoking, drinking alcohol or taking drugs. But, ever since time began, we've been searching for substances which make us feel good, anything from magic mushrooms to coca leaves on to good old distilled whisky with Highland water.

The search will go on forever until we can invent something like an instant happiness pill without any side effects.

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I agree, and would go further in legalising Heroin and cocaine, what is sold/bought on the street is impure and adulterated, in the case of heroin often with very dangerous substances such as cyanide, also brick dust has been used as an adulterant. If it was legal, then you would cut the crime rate, available, so no need to steal to fill an illegal habit, drug barons and dealers would be out of a job, drug wars would disappear from the streets, hopefully at least, and the country would save millions in police time, court cases etc.

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Well said HBG!
I personally think the law is an utter ass when it comes to cannabis.
I will openly admit I spent some years of my life smoking a joint with friends.
Unlike with alcohol, I have never seen an aggressive stoned person. Hungry yes, but aggressive or in any way a threat to anyone else or themselves, no!
Unfortunately, for someone to buy cannabis they have to do so illegally which puts them in line of fire of trying other things. This is what you have highlighted in your last comment!
Cannabis itself, I don't believe is addictive. The smoking of the legal aspect of it, namely tobacco is!
I haven't smoked any for some years now and I don't miss it.
I certainly don't hold judgment on those that do :amen:

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I have seen peoples lives utterly destroyed from heroin. It's not just the sufferer but everyone around them. As the withdraw is so painful, these guys will do anything for a hit. Heroin should never be readily available! :frown:

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Laws are often made on the basis of "morality", which inevitably changes over decades/generations.

When it all started to become popular with the counter-culture, naturally, it appeared this evil had to be stopped on "moral" grounds. After all, it was only being widely adopted by the evil counter culture hell-bent on ruining society as we know it (despite so many subscribing to the moral "high ground" routinely drinking themselves into oblivion and engaging in all kinds of despicable acts).

As the "weed" business went underground, naturally we saw the growth of a huge illegal trade, conducted by criminals and people who recognised only their own form of justice, which of course, only proves the morally questionable nature of Marijuana and other drugs, and only sends us packing more resources to fight it, ironically only making it more popular, causing more and more conflict, whilst criminals walk away with billions that could otherwise be windfall tax profits used for the common good.

We live in different times now, and perhaps we can begin to reflect on the consequences of closed-mindedly enforcing "moralities" the majority subscribe to at any given moment in history. Unfortunately, probably not in this lifetime...

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A drop in the ocean compared to the lives blighted by alcohol abuse and I'll go so far to say alcohol USE. Just how many people do you think actually take heroin? I'll bet if you sat 1000 people in a room and asked people to BE HONEST, less than 10% would actually know a heroin user.... What's the betting more than half know someone whose life has been blighted by alcohol in one way or another.

I take your point but as a genius who is lost to us once said...

" You always hear stories about people taking drugs and jumping off a building thinking they could fly, idiots, when was the last time you saw ducks taking the elevator to get to the top of a building to fly south for the summer, if you thought you could fly, take off from the ground! **** them, we haven't lost a cure for cancer in these idiots, just another petrol pump attendant"

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Just out of interest who said it Matt?

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Well there ya go, just what I was saying!

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You're taking what I said out of text. I'm saying I don't believe heroin should be made legal.
Alcohol, well that's always the alternative but there is a difference!
People taking heroin end up ruined! Millions upon millions of people enjoy alcohol!
So, comparing cannabis to alcohol is comparing like for like, though alcohol causes more problems with people, families and crime rates.

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He also states that he is "cold, cruel and vicious"
And you pay attention to the ramblings of this idiot! I'm not knocking you but hey, he's hardly an authority on life.

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I read earlier that 75% of cannabis, of the stronger, 'skunk' variety is now grown in the UK, mostly in factories run by Vietnamese people who employ hapless young 'slaves' to run them.

I can't quote the interesting article because it's in a paper you have to pay for.

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I didn't take anything out of context, I was using your post to highlight a point I was tying to make... Oh and no they don't, I know two people who are former addicts and both have completely turned their lives around, one of them has even made a good life for himself and his daughter.



Was anything he said wrong? You're damn right I listen to people like him, if not who else is there? The politicians telling us their drug policies work? The "Drug Tsars" who tell us that the likes of cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol and tobacco? Without voices like his, and I'm not saying he is some sort of messiah, he is just a voice, we are left believing the shite we are told by the very politicians who lie to us to keep us from asking questions.

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[QUOTE=rugbymatt;10868510]I didn't take anything out of context, I was using your post to highlight a point I was tying to make... Oh and no they don't, I know two people who are former addicts and both have completely turned their lives around, one of them has even made a good life for himself and his daughter

I hear what you're saying Rugbymat but the truth is, heroin users tend to hit the depths of despair before finding the strength to put things right.
I'm glad for the people you know as I too know similar stories.
As for you taking things out of context...my brain is often a bit weak on a Sunday and I misunderstood! :p

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Honestly not an issue at all...

The same could easily be said about alcohol abuse, it takes those involved to hell and back and unlike heroin it effects people most of not all of us know. I think we are both coming at this subject with the same message even if its by a different approach. I am not in any way advocating heroin use but I do find it difficult to understand why, in such an informed day and age we not only allow but actively encourage alcohol use yet penalize people for trying illicit drugs.

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I've read the same article in today's Sunday Times. It's another reason to legalise cannabis, IMO, to take organised crime out of the equation.

Mostly for the same reason, I agree with those who feel it's time to legalise all drugs, even heroin. Not for a moment do I think it's a good idea to use it, but decades of attempts to prevent it via the criminal justice system have failed and if people are so determined to risk their health it would IMO be better that it be available to buy under controlled, safe conditions, it could be taxed just like alcohol and tobacco and most importantly it would deprive the gangsters of an opportunity to get rich and attract vulnerable people to get involved in their trade at a level where they are far more likely to fall foul of the law whilst those raking in the real money, at a safe distance, remain free.

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Whilst I agree with your point that alcoholism is a major problem, I don't see it as a valid comparison with drug abuse.

The vast majority of habitual alcohol users do so in moderation and have enough control of the habit not to allow it to be detrimental to their own lives or the lives of others.

How many hard drug users can say the same once they've got into the habit ?

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Which is precisely the same situation as millions of habitual cannabis/marijuana users.

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Read my post "hard drug users".

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Having lived in Iran, it's true, there are a lot of heroin addicts. But probably more in Afghanistan. The Ayatollahs have a hypocritical view of heroin, because it brings in lots of revenue.
However, that website looks rather suspect to me. For example, the table column depicting "Total number of addicts" doesn't make sense from the way they have written the comma; is the number of heroin addicts in Iran 95,000 or 950,000??
And some of their spelling just isn't English.

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But you have crossed your point up already. You said "habitual alcohol users" then talk about "hard drug users"

If we are talking about cannabis then there is no evidence that the weed itself is addict forming, alcohol is. When we talk about harder drugs then often its not the drug itself that is the issue but what it's cut with, as already pointed out. It's not uncommon at all to find Vim, bicarb, horse drugs, talk, lactose, in fact almost anything they can get their hands on... heroin is one of the worst for being adulterated. Lets not forget that in its purest form of diamorphine it has saved tens of millions of lives since the 1800's.... cut it with crap and sell it to weak vulnerable people and it kills.

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It's interesting that the various agencies set up to combat severe addiction to alcohol, mostly AA, now accept drug addicts into their treatment programme too, the addictions being strikingly similar.

Similarly, an easy and effective treatment has yet to be found. Rich celebrities go to extremely expensive treatment centres and frequently lapse, just the same as ordinary people going to free meetings.

You can fall on your knees and pray your heart out, but it won't replace the soothing effect of whatever you became addicted to. I would bet that most families in the land have witnessed such wicked addiction at first hand within their family circle.

There's even a strong belief that such addictions are inherited.

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To take my point a little further, a considerable percentage of late teens and early twenties have been going out getting rat-arsed on alcohol on weekends as long as I can remember.

The vast majority do not turn into alcos, well not until they've been married for about 40 yrs anyway) ;).

Had they been abusing hard drugs in a similar manner, the vast majority would soon be addicted and wreck their lives in no time at all.

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But DD, kids smoke cannabis these days as freely as you might have smoked a cigarette, or equal to the amount of which they drink booze. Where are all the drug addicts?
You keep changing cannabis for "hard drugs". Cannabis isn't a hard drug.

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Any evidence for that?

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The discussion broadened to include hard drugs and alcohol,(not my doing), so I simply added my own view to that.
I'm fully aware that cannabis is not a hard drug, though as I pointed out earlier it is not without its risks.

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http://www.michaelshouse.com/drug-ad...e-drugs-world/

Some interesting figures.

MOST ADDICTIVE DRUGS

First, Nicotine at over 30% of those who became regular users.

Second, Caffeine at slightly less than 30%

Third, Heroine at 25%

Fourth Cocaine, (no figure given).

Fifth, Alcohol at 15%

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Makes interesting reading...

http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/ass...the.nation.pdf