The way it should be
 

This is the essence of entrepreneurialism. This is what it's all about. And it likely couldn't have happened here. He would have faced almost insurmountable hurdles.

Steve Jobs in 1980

Re: The way it should be
 

I've never got why people gush over Jobs. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Apple products, I have an Apple Mac (Its a bit sick at the mo) but not only is the company hell bent on ripping people off but by all accounts of anyone who ever dealt with him, he was an absolute wanker. Strange really.

Re: The way it should be
 

To me the essence of Steve Jobs' greatness, was not the DTP capabilities of the early Macs, nor the iPod nor the iPhone (although they were all fantastic additions to the market). It was the decision, in the mid 90s, to make their new iMac range of computers, in different colours. Up to that point everyone accepted that business computers had to be a shade of grey. He had the ability to see the Emperor had no clothes, when no-one else was able to do so.

Re: The way it should be
 

Clearly this presentation proves he (and anyone else who manages to become successful) was a self-centered, greedy bastard hell-bent on ripping everyone off.

Remember, all of this was long before anyone had ever seen a "mouse" or a graphical user interface.

I'd be more inclined to characterise him as "visionary". You did watch it, right?

Re: The way it should be
 

I did actually but I am not basing my comments on one video.

Re: The way it should be
 

Well, you must be delighted and feel much safer that fewer and fewer people like him are in business.

Seems that the successful ones are mostly day traders and hedge fund managers nowadays, all making far better contributions to society than "wankers" like Steve Jobs.

Re: The way it should be
 

Emancio Ortega didnt find insurmountable hurdles, neither did Emilio Botin

Steve Jobs was an excellent designer in a field where nobody had really thought about design before

Re: The way it should be
 

Woah woah woah, lets just hold on a second. I didn't say anything of the sort. What I said was that the public image of the man and the private one was very different. Many who worked with him closely, including people who had known him for decades painted a very different picture of him. You didn't know him. He wasn't your bessie mate so why are you getting so upset by my comments?

Re: The way it should be
 

He apparently was very demanding. I'd argue whether that's qualifies him as "wanker" , "hell bent on ripping everyone off" as you so eloquently asserted.

But I think your views speak for themselves, and don't need any further explanations from me.

Have a nice day!

Re: The way it should be
 

Well if you consider, for a second that an iPhone costs less than a fiver to construct (R&D aside as that always has to happen) yet they cost a minimum of £500 to purchase, how do you see that? I recently purchased a cable for the laptop that cost me 50 quid.... the same cable was at PC world the other day for 11.50.

Do Apple rip people off? As an Apple user and fan I'd have to say yes. Sorry.

Re: The way it should be
 

The issue surely is not whether Jobs was a wanker or not, but whether it would be possible for someone with great ideas and an entrepreneurial spirit could succeed in modern Spain?

The odds do seem set against it. It is incredibly difficult to start a small business because of the bureaucracy, the autonomo system and the high costs of employing staff (legally that is).

Then at the point when you are readly to expand, there is the unwillingness of banks to invest in anything vaguely risky. The would-be Jobs would have to resort to a venture capitalist to get funding, who would bleed off his profits and have no long-term commitment.

Re: The way it should be
 

There are plenty of large successful multinational Spanish companies that have been set up in the past 30 years

Currrently there is a lack of financing, but there was only easy credit in Spain for a very short period of time (late 90s to 2007)

Very successful companies are often those that are set up during very difficult times. You dont need to overleverage to attract growth

Here in Oviedo, shops are closing down all the time, but 1 month later a new shop is in its place, together with a very expensive refit and branding. So the money is coming from somewhere. This shop has opened up close to me this week, a Spanish company that is growing rapidly across Northern Spain, the clothing is pretty expensive too http://tiendasleonce.wordpress.com/

Re: The way it should be
 

Hmm. That's an opinion. But about 20 million others seem to disagree.

Sent by my €150 android phone because I had a choice.

Re: The way it should be
 

If it has not already done so Samsung will soon overtake Apple in the sales of competative products, the recent court decisions in favour of Samsung have not done Apple's image any favours.
Remember until the I player came out Apple was in the doldrums its products being part of a niche market. The player was a fantactic marketing job that introduced the name of Apple to a younger generation whe eagerly snapped up its new products almost as fashion accessories. Jobs was marketing genius
, that is the real strength of Apple it is certainly not in designing phones .

Re: The way it should be
 

There are any number of entrepreneurs who are expanding their businesses within and outside of Spain. Of course the well-known examples are Zara and Mango, but if we look at MercaDona and Dia (headed by a Venezuelan woman) they are expanding within Spain. Never heard of Fon? A Madrid enterprise started by the Argentinean Martin Varsavsky that is a huge player world wide in terms of wi-fi routers (if you have a BT wi-fi router in the UK chances are it's provided by Fon). Another wi-fi company, Gowex, is growing fast the world over. 100 Montaditos and Lazarran are expanding worldwide. And there are any number of IT startups (eg Softonic, Akamon, BrainSins, Minube, even directory like Idealista) that are expanding in various countries, not just Spain.

If the question is, "can a new company start up from nothing and become as big as Apple?", then you may have a point. There has only really been 1 company in all of Europe that has made it to the top 10 in the last 40 years, and that was Inditex (Zara)

Re: The way it should be
 

Complete nonsense

Jobs was a design and marketing genius. The iPod, iPhone and iPad were first to market in their category - and let us do things that we couldnt do before due to the design of their user interface

I have an iPhone and iPad and I am very pleased with them. There are cheaper Samsung and Android devices that may even be better, but if price isnt much of an issue then who cares

It took me years to come round to Apple as I thought it was just hype and I actually hate their marketing and ridiculous launch events

Re: The way it should be
 

I believe he hired a talented Brit designer who was behind a lot of those innovations?

Edit - Jonathan Ive

Re: The way it should be
 

So it should be the IvePod, IvePad & IvePhone

Re: The way it should be
 

I'd argue that their real strength (as the original video I posted shows clearly) that Apple (under Jobs) always had an uncanny ability to predict trends, and invent stuff that nobody knew they needed, yet quickly found out they couldn't do without. ...at any price.

Fact is, Samsung wouldn't be the number 1 phone maker without Apple. Most of what Samsung has done they can thank Apple (and Steve jobs) for creating their market for them, and then copying the idea.

Before Apple, Nokia was #1, and we all know what happened to Nokia when the first iPhone was released.

I think Microsoft also owes a great credit to Steve Jobs as well - Windows was clearly an attempt to copy of what Apple did with the Macintosh, but Microsoft only adopted it long after the Mac was released (and so many, including Microsoft publicly claiming the idea was a non-starter).

Before you mention Xerox, I'm not saying Apple invented everything - only that they had the vision and the will to take it to market in such a way that made them a huge success, despite the huge consort of nay-sayers.

As the video shows, the Steves sold their humble possessions to live out their vision, which they truly believed in. And they were allowed to do that with little resistance, and just look what they achieved.

Forget how rich Steve jobs became, think about all the people they employ worldwide - on good salaries and benefits - and all the people who also believed in Apple and became pretty wealthy from that,too (including little old ladies who bought a few shares of their stock in 1984). And all those beneficiaries pay taxes, too.

This for me, epitomizes the spirit of great entrepreneurialism and serves as a testament to what people can achieve if they are allowed to.

Re: The way it should be
 

Actually, Apple dont employ many people at all given that they are the USA's no.1 company based on the value of their shares... and their bank balance. About 80,000 across the world

Their story is a typical liberal capitalist one. Pay a few talented people in the West very well and sub-contract the production to the cheapest bidder in the East - and dont ask how much they are paying their workers!

Re: The way it should be
 

Except of course when they very nearly went to the wall right?

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Yep. A brit was the main design genius behind it. But that guy also was working in an environment which encouraged vision and innovation over just making money. In that environment, it really could have been anyone possessing the vision, enthusiasm and will to make it reality.

Re: The way it should be
 

Yes, I remember - right after they pushed Jobs out. Almost went bankrupt until they begged him to come back, and that's when Apple became a huge success.

Re: The way it should be
 

An expected rationale...

Then I suppose they don't speak Spanish either.

Re: The way it should be
 

He quit after a failed boardroom takeover, he tried to push others out and it backfired. His brilliance and some would argue his skill, was making the Macintosh computer only official if they made it, setting up a precedent for the future, if its not Apple Mac its not official, same goes for programming and accessories.

Re: The way it should be
 

And if they would have just kept his "wanker", "hell bent on ripping people off" sorry arse out of the company, then I have to reckon they would not have amassed all those riches from making crap products at ridiculous prices and holding guns to everyone's head and forcing them to buy them.

I was one of the lucky ones. Somehow the "Apple police" never showed up at my front door and forced me to buy Apple products. I bought Macs because I wanted to.

I did buy some Apple stock though. Silly me. :D

Re: The way it should be
 

thats funny, the Apple Police never showed up at my door either.
but I have never bought a single Apple product, I have an aversion to being locked into a single programme system

OK hit me with Microsoft, but they provide support for companies to build progammes on their base OS.

remember well the arguements tween Chris Currie and Clive Sinclair.

`

Re: The way it should be
 

I am sure that despite the slightly better attitudes to business startups back in 1976 no one felt that the original Apple products - which were just bare-bones PCB's without monitor, keyboard nor a case! - would ever become the massive success they have been. But then they have moved from their original products through a number of re-incarnations.

I can see no reason why a business startup today can't be making the same success in 37 years time.
Just look at
Microsoft,
HP (who still have a large number of industry standard products from the early days)
Oracle (the third-largest software maker by revenue, after Microsoft and IBM)
I would include IBM, but they originally started in 1911, only entering the arena with certain products in the 1970's

Everyone seems to know Jobs & Gates, but few know of Cerf (prog mgr for TCP/IP technology) & Kahn who built the original ARPANET that was the forerunner of the work that Sir Tim Berners-Lee built on to give us the current WWW.

So who will be the next and the next and the ..........
:thumbsup: