Violence in Spain
Sep 27th 2012 | 5:19 am
#181
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,404
From: East Sussex
Re: Violence in Spain
You can google till you're blue in the face Cman,but it's common knowledge that many such incidents in Spain are swept under the carpet because of the shame involved.
Although Spain has moved on a little bit in this respect, it's still way behind the rest of Europe in respect of openness and transparency in such matters.
Although Spain has moved on a little bit in this respect, it's still way behind the rest of Europe in respect of openness and transparency in such matters.
Even back in 2005 the campaign had started, with various dedicated courthouses opening...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005...pain.dalefuchs
Attitudes began to change in 1997, when 99 women were murdered by their present or former partners, according to Ms Alvarez. Women's groups led protests after each killing, and the media embarked on a campaign against domestic violence, publishing the crude details of abuse.
Last year, the government stiffened the penal code to make spousal abuse punishable on the first offence. A divorce law, expected to win approval this week, makes separation proceedings quicker. The government also plans to assign 380 extra officers to the protection of women threatened by domestic violence.
Last year, the government stiffened the penal code to make spousal abuse punishable on the first offence. A divorce law, expected to win approval this week, makes separation proceedings quicker. The government also plans to assign 380 extra officers to the protection of women threatened by domestic violence.
Last edited by steviedeluxe; Sep 27th 2012 at 5:22 am.
Sep 27th 2012 | 6:22 am
#182
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From: On Top of the World
Re: Violence in Spain
You are so badly informed Dick. Give it up before CM hands you your culo on a plate with the relevant facts, again...
Even back in 2005 the campaign had started, with various dedicated courthouses opening...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005...pain.dalefuchs
Even back in 2005 the campaign had started, with various dedicated courthouses opening...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005...pain.dalefuchs
The problem had simply reached epidemic proportions and something had to be done as it was a National disgrace.
Even now the proportion who daren't come out and ask for help is an unknown factor that no amount of googling will ever reveal the full facts.
As I said Spain has moved on to a certain extent, but still has one hell of a long way to go regarding domestic violence issues, as might be expected in view of traditional Catholic religious views which have for so long in the past taken precedent over freedom of speech and transparency.
Sep 27th 2012 | 6:24 am
#183
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,753
From: Alicante province
Re: Violence in Spain
I have never found much difference between the UK and Spain in general terms, and the million expats living here accept that and are here for the weather, which is definitely much better.
Violence is probably on much at the same level too, but Spanish policing still hasn't reached the levels of the UK and most other European countries because of the hangover from the Franco years when the army ruled, ruthlessly at times.
A disproportionally high percentage of expats are former service and police personnel, as well as other civil servants and the reasons are obvious - their early retirement and decent pensions allow them to live in Spain, in comfort, and many have taken early retirement after being injured in the line of duty and receiving an index linked pension at an early age.
If you're partially disabled, life under a healing sun is much better than trying to recover in the rain-soaked UK.
Violence is probably on much at the same level too, but Spanish policing still hasn't reached the levels of the UK and most other European countries because of the hangover from the Franco years when the army ruled, ruthlessly at times.
A disproportionally high percentage of expats are former service and police personnel, as well as other civil servants and the reasons are obvious - their early retirement and decent pensions allow them to live in Spain, in comfort, and many have taken early retirement after being injured in the line of duty and receiving an index linked pension at an early age.
If you're partially disabled, life under a healing sun is much better than trying to recover in the rain-soaked UK.
Sep 27th 2012 | 6:31 am
#184
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Violence in Spain
Try asking yourself why a campaign was ever necessary Stevie.
The problem had simply reached epidemic proportions and something had to be done as it was a National disgrace.
Even now the proportion who daren't come out and ask for help is an unknown factor that no amount of googling will ever reveal the full facts.
As I said Spain has moved on to a certain extent, but still has one hell of a long way to go regarding domestic violence issues, as might be expected in view of traditional Catholic religious views which have for so long in the past taken precedent over freedom of speech and transparency.
The problem had simply reached epidemic proportions and something had to be done as it was a National disgrace.
Even now the proportion who daren't come out and ask for help is an unknown factor that no amount of googling will ever reveal the full facts.
As I said Spain has moved on to a certain extent, but still has one hell of a long way to go regarding domestic violence issues, as might be expected in view of traditional Catholic religious views which have for so long in the past taken precedent over freedom of speech and transparency.
Sep 27th 2012 | 6:51 am
#185
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
Re: Violence in Spain
For reasons I will not go into here, it is my experience that a hard core percentage of 'Rioters' or 'Demonstrators' have no real reason or 'cause' to fight for any aspect in particular, as a matter of fact they are at BEST unclear as to exactly WHAT they are 'fighting' for! I accept the situation within the EEC, and the reason why people are demonstrating, but:
You can call them Anarchists (if they in fact understand the meaning of that word) if you like, 'bovver boys', 'lefties' or whatever, but theres is sometimes a thread.
Without getting too much into Politics, History is filled with a group of intelligent people or even ONE person who can manipulate, 'spellbind' or just whip up a whole mass of people who are just basically disgruntled, fed up, angry or frustrated with a situation or what they perceive (or are lead to believe) a problem means to them, even better if they are 'unintelligent'. People normally deal with this 'by voting with their feet' or exchanging views/ protesting peacefully etc (as sometimes happens on this Forum!!!)
Basically, some of these people simply look for trouble in order to loot, fight with the Police, commit Serious Crime or just to get in a 'ruck'............ I wouldn't call them 'rebels without a cause' ( more scum of the earth to be honest), but you get the idea. The unfortunate thing is that lately they are ORGANISED, with effective 'Leadership', a vast Intelligence network and a Communication chain that means they can add fuel to any fire anywhere at anytime. If you may doubt this, ask yourself why it has been shown the SAME faces appear in so many riots at so many places.....but the surprise is that the 'cause' is always different!!!!!!
You can call them Anarchists (if they in fact understand the meaning of that word) if you like, 'bovver boys', 'lefties' or whatever, but theres is sometimes a thread.
Without getting too much into Politics, History is filled with a group of intelligent people or even ONE person who can manipulate, 'spellbind' or just whip up a whole mass of people who are just basically disgruntled, fed up, angry or frustrated with a situation or what they perceive (or are lead to believe) a problem means to them, even better if they are 'unintelligent'. People normally deal with this 'by voting with their feet' or exchanging views/ protesting peacefully etc (as sometimes happens on this Forum!!!)
Basically, some of these people simply look for trouble in order to loot, fight with the Police, commit Serious Crime or just to get in a 'ruck'............ I wouldn't call them 'rebels without a cause' ( more scum of the earth to be honest), but you get the idea. The unfortunate thing is that lately they are ORGANISED, with effective 'Leadership', a vast Intelligence network and a Communication chain that means they can add fuel to any fire anywhere at anytime. If you may doubt this, ask yourself why it has been shown the SAME faces appear in so many riots at so many places.....but the surprise is that the 'cause' is always different!!!!!!
Now what time is Jeremy Vine on? Harumph.
Sep 27th 2012 | 8:32 am
#186
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On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: On Top of the World
Re: Violence in Spain
Compare the facts (I dont have them to hand) and you may find that domestic abuse is just as prevalent in the UK as in Spain. But it is the UK that has'nt made it a priority, maybe its those "backward protestant attitudes" (sic) towards women. After all, the UK has never had a pregnant 30-something female as its head of the military
You really should get out and mix a bit more to find out and see for yourself the real facts at firsthand rather than pontificating endless googled trash from your ivory tower.
You obviously don't even have a clue what goes on in your own country, oops oh sorry, you're supposed to be English aren't you ?
Sep 27th 2012 | 8:46 am
#187
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,753
From: Alicante province
Re: Violence in Spain
You continue to spout total rubbish Cman and furthermore demonstrate your total naivity of Spanish life in general.
You really should get out and mix a bit more to find out and see for yourself the real facts at firsthand rather than pontificating endless googled trash from your ivory tower.
You obviously don't even have a clue what goes on in your own country, oops oh sorry, you're supposed to be English aren't you ?
You really should get out and mix a bit more to find out and see for yourself the real facts at firsthand rather than pontificating endless googled trash from your ivory tower.
You obviously don't even have a clue what goes on in your own country, oops oh sorry, you're supposed to be English aren't you ?
Sep 27th 2012 | 8:54 am
#188
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,367
Re: Violence in Spain
You continue to spout total rubbish Cman and furthermore demonstrate your total naivity of Spanish life in general.
You really should get out and mix a bit more to find out and see for yourself the real facts at firsthand rather than pontificating endless googled trash from your ivory tower.
You obviously don't even have a clue what goes on in your own country, oops oh sorry, you're supposed to be English aren't you ?
You really should get out and mix a bit more to find out and see for yourself the real facts at firsthand rather than pontificating endless googled trash from your ivory tower.
You obviously don't even have a clue what goes on in your own country, oops oh sorry, you're supposed to be English aren't you ?
Mind you, in true Spanish tradition, her husband's company was awarded with a military contract for 400.000 euros soon after, and a contract for the lottery. Coincidence, I expect.
Sep 30th 2012 | 6:17 am
#189
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: Violence in Spain
Domestic violence is a very under reported crime in spain, because of the social situation as in monetary help for the victims.
I personally know of quite a few women who do not feature in any statistics for domestic voilence, as they have never reported any incident to the authorities.
While they abhor the situation they are in and really would like their situation resolved, they know that they must "take it".
There is no help for a "housewife" who cannot survive without the wage of her husband, there is no financial help in finding accomodation away from a violent partner or available money to be financially independant, and so being able to move out with children is nigh on impossible.
I actually know of a woman of nearly 80, although now the violence of the past is a rarity, her huband has a small pension, and she has a smaller one, there has never been enough money for them to separate, so she chose to take the beatings but at least have a place to live and food inside her.
Had this been in the UK she would have reported the violence and left the swine years ago and been able to have a better quality of life, as surviving on benefits is preferable to staying with a violent man because there is no alternative.
I personally know of quite a few women who do not feature in any statistics for domestic voilence, as they have never reported any incident to the authorities.
While they abhor the situation they are in and really would like their situation resolved, they know that they must "take it".
There is no help for a "housewife" who cannot survive without the wage of her husband, there is no financial help in finding accomodation away from a violent partner or available money to be financially independant, and so being able to move out with children is nigh on impossible.
I actually know of a woman of nearly 80, although now the violence of the past is a rarity, her huband has a small pension, and she has a smaller one, there has never been enough money for them to separate, so she chose to take the beatings but at least have a place to live and food inside her.
Had this been in the UK she would have reported the violence and left the swine years ago and been able to have a better quality of life, as surviving on benefits is preferable to staying with a violent man because there is no alternative.
Last edited by me me; Sep 30th 2012 at 6:19 am.
Sep 30th 2012 | 6:48 am
#190
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On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: Violence in Spain
Domestic violence is a very under reported crime in spain, because of the social situation as in monetary help for the victims.
I personally know of quite a few women who do not feature in any statistics for domestic voilence, as they have never reported any incident to the authorities.
While they abhor the situation they are in and really would like their situation resolved, they know that they must "take it".
There is no help for a "housewife" who cannot survive without the wage of her husband, there is no financial help in finding accomodation away from a violent partner or available money to be financially independant, and so being able to move out with children is nigh on impossible.
I actually know of a woman of nearly 80, although now the violence of the past is a rarity, her huband has a small pension, and she has a smaller one, there has never been enough money for them to separate, so she chose to take the beatings but at least have a place to live and food inside her.
Had this been in the UK she would have reported the violence and left the swine years ago and been able to have a better quality of life, as surviving on benefits is preferable to staying with a violent man because there is no alternative.
I personally know of quite a few women who do not feature in any statistics for domestic voilence, as they have never reported any incident to the authorities.
While they abhor the situation they are in and really would like their situation resolved, they know that they must "take it".
There is no help for a "housewife" who cannot survive without the wage of her husband, there is no financial help in finding accomodation away from a violent partner or available money to be financially independant, and so being able to move out with children is nigh on impossible.
I actually know of a woman of nearly 80, although now the violence of the past is a rarity, her huband has a small pension, and she has a smaller one, there has never been enough money for them to separate, so she chose to take the beatings but at least have a place to live and food inside her.
Had this been in the UK she would have reported the violence and left the swine years ago and been able to have a better quality of life, as surviving on benefits is preferable to staying with a violent man because there is no alternative.
You sum up the sad situation very well.
Absolutely no comparison at all to the UK.
I can only assume that those in denial have neither any experience or knowledge of the sort of desperate situations so many Spanish women have found themselves in.
Sep 30th 2012 | 6:58 am
#191
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,404
From: East Sussex
Re: Violence in Spain
Yes the Ostriches are out in force.
Domestic violence? Couldn't happen in the UK!!! Sorry, but this is too serious a subject for your "UK Good Spain Bad" ToroKaka.
Even a recent bbc link shows that 1 in 4 women have suffered domestic violence. People still get killed as a consequence. Let's face it, why did Erin Pizzy set up the battered wives charity if it wasn't a problem?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19640257
In fact Dick you've achieved the distinction of going on the Ignore list. Your pompous blusters have gotten progressively worse this summer. You're unable to back up things you claim, it's always "I reckon this" and "it's obvious to me that,...." etc. I refuse to waste any more time reading such uninformed drivel. 
Domestic violence? Couldn't happen in the UK!!! Sorry, but this is too serious a subject for your "UK Good Spain Bad" ToroKaka.
Even a recent bbc link shows that 1 in 4 women have suffered domestic violence. People still get killed as a consequence. Let's face it, why did Erin Pizzy set up the battered wives charity if it wasn't a problem?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19640257
One in four women will be a victim of domestic violence in their lifetime
On average, 35 assaults happen before the police are called
Sep 30th 2012 | 7:14 am
#192
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: Violence in Spain
Yes the Ostriches are out in force.
Domestic violence? Couldn't happen in the UK!!! Sorry, but this is too serious a subject for your "UK Good Spain Bad" ToroKaka.
Even a recent bbc link shows that 1 in 4 women have suffered domestic violence. People still get killed as a consequence. Let's face it, why did Erin Pizzy set up the battered wives charity if it wasn't a problem?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19640257
In fact Dick you've achieved the distinction of going on the Ignore list. Your pompous blusters have gotten progressively worse this summer. You're unable to back up things you claim, it's always "I reckon this" and "it's obvious to me that,...." etc. I refuse to waste any more time reading such uninformed drivel.
Domestic violence? Couldn't happen in the UK!!! Sorry, but this is too serious a subject for your "UK Good Spain Bad" ToroKaka.
Even a recent bbc link shows that 1 in 4 women have suffered domestic violence. People still get killed as a consequence. Let's face it, why did Erin Pizzy set up the battered wives charity if it wasn't a problem?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19640257
In fact Dick you've achieved the distinction of going on the Ignore list. Your pompous blusters have gotten progressively worse this summer. You're unable to back up things you claim, it's always "I reckon this" and "it's obvious to me that,...." etc. I refuse to waste any more time reading such uninformed drivel.
The advantage to being an abused victim in the UK compared to Spain, is the financial help that is available for British residents.
Women in most countries have to weigh up, what is preferable, a split lip or a roof over ones head?
In the UK the victim does not have to tolerate violence if she does not want to, she can have financial help to get her out of the situation, and is more likely to report abuse than her Spanish counterpart.
While Spain is trying to tackle the problem by jailing abusers, that can often cause other problems for the family.
If the abuser is the only, or main bread winner a jail term of a couple of months will only make the family problems worse, as no state money will be forthcoming to help the victims while the breadwinner is banged up and not earning.
Your rant against people for giving an opinion is rather childish, as I cannot "back up" my facts to your satisfaction with official figures, I can only go on what I know throught living here and hearing stories from relations and friends in Spain.
The bottom line is, if I lived in a situation of being a non earning or low earning housewife with a couple of kiddies and a violent husband/partner, I would sure as eggs is eggs prefer to be living in the UK, as at least there is more of an escape route.
Sep 30th 2012 | 7:17 am
#193
Thread Starter
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: Violence in Spain
Yes the Ostriches are out in force.
Domestic violence? Couldn't happen in the UK!!! Sorry, but this is too serious a subject for your "UK Good Spain Bad" ToroKaka.
Even a recent bbc link shows that 1 in 4 women have suffered domestic violence. People still get killed as a consequence. Let's face it, why did Erin Pizzy set up the battered wives charity if it wasn't a problem?
In fact Dick you've achieved the distinction of going on the Ignore list. Your pompous blusters have gotten progressively worse this summer. You're unable to back up things you claim, it's always "I reckon this" and "it's obvious to me that,...." etc. I refuse to waste any more time reading such uninformed drivel.
Domestic violence? Couldn't happen in the UK!!! Sorry, but this is too serious a subject for your "UK Good Spain Bad" ToroKaka.
Even a recent bbc link shows that 1 in 4 women have suffered domestic violence. People still get killed as a consequence. Let's face it, why did Erin Pizzy set up the battered wives charity if it wasn't a problem?
In fact Dick you've achieved the distinction of going on the Ignore list. Your pompous blusters have gotten progressively worse this summer. You're unable to back up things you claim, it's always "I reckon this" and "it's obvious to me that,...." etc. I refuse to waste any more time reading such uninformed drivel.
I respectfully suggest you try reading it again Stevie, rather than spitting your dummy because you dont like to face the truth.
I sometimes wonder if you've ever even lived in Spain or have any experience of Spanish life at all or simply live in your own imaginery cyber space world of what you'd hoped it might be.
""Domestic violence is a very under reported crime in spain, because of the social situation as in monetary help for the victims.
I personally know of quite a few women who do not feature in any statistics for domestic voilence, as they have never reported any incident to the authorities.
While they abhor the situation they are in and really would like their situation resolved, they know that they must "take it".
There is no help for a "housewife" who cannot survive without the wage of her husband, there is no financial help in finding accomodation away from a violent partner or available money to be financially independant, and so being able to move out with children is nigh on impossible.
I actually know of a woman of nearly 80, although now the violence of the past is a rarity, her huband has a small pension, and she has a smaller one, there has never been enough money for them to separate, so she chose to take the beatings but at least have a place to live and food inside her.
Had this been in the UK she would have reported the violence and left the swine years ago and been able to have a better quality of life, as surviving on benefits is preferable to staying with a violent man because there is no alternative.""
Got it now ?
Sep 30th 2012 | 7:32 am
#194
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,426
From: Velez-Malaga
Re: Violence in Spain
Having been involved in womens' rights campaigns from the 1970s onwards, I know that empowering women to leave violent partners (and men too, who can also be victims of domestic violence) is seldom simply a matter of providing financial support and accommodation.
Many women will be attacked time after time and still believe their abuser when they tearfully say they didn't mean it, it will never happen again, and they are often made to believe the violence is their own fault as they did something to provoke it. Even women who are temporarily accommodated in womens' refuges , having suffered terribly, will sometimes be hunted down by their partner and persuaded to go back to them. Many are reluctant to report the abuse to the police, although complaints of domestic violence are handled much better now than they were years ago. They have been conditioned by controlling and violent partners over many years to the extent that they are almost incapable of thinking rationally about their situation, and will collude with their attackers in hiding abuse from the authorities, eg hospital staff who would alert the police - the old "I walked into a door" scenario.
For some, they can somehow find the courage to leave if the partner turns violent towards their children, but sadly sometimes even then it doesn't happen.
Domestic violence goes on in all parts of the world and in all every strata of society, from the richest to the poorest. Erin Pizzey wrote an excellent book about it, "Scream Quietly or the Neighbours Will Hear". Although it's more than 30 years old now, it's still just as true today.
Many women will be attacked time after time and still believe their abuser when they tearfully say they didn't mean it, it will never happen again, and they are often made to believe the violence is their own fault as they did something to provoke it. Even women who are temporarily accommodated in womens' refuges , having suffered terribly, will sometimes be hunted down by their partner and persuaded to go back to them. Many are reluctant to report the abuse to the police, although complaints of domestic violence are handled much better now than they were years ago. They have been conditioned by controlling and violent partners over many years to the extent that they are almost incapable of thinking rationally about their situation, and will collude with their attackers in hiding abuse from the authorities, eg hospital staff who would alert the police - the old "I walked into a door" scenario.
For some, they can somehow find the courage to leave if the partner turns violent towards their children, but sadly sometimes even then it doesn't happen.
Domestic violence goes on in all parts of the world and in all every strata of society, from the richest to the poorest. Erin Pizzey wrote an excellent book about it, "Scream Quietly or the Neighbours Will Hear". Although it's more than 30 years old now, it's still just as true today.
Sep 30th 2012 | 8:08 am
#195
Thread Starter
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: Violence in Spain
Very true, it occurs everywhere.
However the worst places are often where it has long been hidden from sight through shame and fear,often because of dictatorial govt policies or traditional religious beliefs.
Spain is only one example of this, though hopefully it is beginning to come out of the dark age of political and religious persecution whereby if a bad situation occurs most of the guilt or blame falls on the Wife or Mother who in actual fact is normally by far in the most difficult situation of all.
However the worst places are often where it has long been hidden from sight through shame and fear,often because of dictatorial govt policies or traditional religious beliefs.
Spain is only one example of this, though hopefully it is beginning to come out of the dark age of political and religious persecution whereby if a bad situation occurs most of the guilt or blame falls on the Wife or Mother who in actual fact is normally by far in the most difficult situation of all.
