Veleta

I'm sure several of you have a vado to permit you to enter and exit your house with a vehicle.

I also have one but the majority of the people in my street don't as parking is very easy. We (as in the entire neighbourhood and several others around the city too) recently received a letter informing us that everyone was going to be forced to have a vado based on the fact that the pavement in our street has been lowered (it was built that way by the developers several years ago and not done at anyone's request). Not only will we be forced to have the vado but we will also have to pay the 'back years'. If anyone refuses to have the vado then the Junta will send someone to raise the pavement to prevent vehicle access to the property, and the property owner will have to pay - circa 500 euros - even though the pavement does't belong to them.

Luckily for me I am not affected as I have a vado anyway by choice, but half the city is up in arms about it saying that the Junta are doing this simply because they are strapped for cash.

Being the only foreigner in the area, I seem to be the only one aware of the fact that vados don't exist in other countries, whereas the rest of my neighbours just seem to accept the fact that vados can exist without question...but then moan about them a lot.

Anyway, it got me thinking about the legality of vados. As far as I am aware everyone has an automatic right to enter and exit their property, and charging people a tax in order to do so could be deemed to be an abuse of our rights. And then charging people 500 euros to raise the pavement in front of their house if they don't want a vado also seems a tad abusive. I wonder what would happen if some brave sole decided to denuncia the Juntas in some European court for this? Any thoughts? Do you think vados would be allowed to exist if the system was denunciado?

Nige

Is 'vado' the same as 'dropped curb' or 'cross over' in UK parlance. Certainly in UK to get a cross over done will cost maybe £1,500. Surrey Council say:

We do not allow you to drive over a pavement or verge unless a vehicle crossover has been authorised and put in. This is because you may damage the pavement or any pipes or cables that are buried underneath it. The crossover allows you to pass safely from the carriageway preventing any obstruction to the highway.

Veleta

No, a vado is the plaque that you put on the entrance to your garage/property. The curb is already 'dropped'.

However, people will merrily park in front of the entrace to your property blocking you in or out as the case may be unless you have a vado plaque. If you have the vado this then entitles you to call the police and a grua will remove the offending vehicle. If you don't have the vado then you are trapped in (or out) of your property.

It's been a long time since I was in the UK, but if I remember correctly you cannot park in front of a dropped curb??? And if you parked in front of a dropped curb blocking someone inside their house that person would be able to call the police. You do not have that right here.

Econ

I have never heard of anyone being 'forced' to have a vado before, if you want one down here in the south you go to the town hall and apply for one, if the local or house next door doesn't want one then no problem. Vados here 'as far as I can see' are generally used if you have an entrance to a garage or at the front of a local where you need access for a van or car. I can only think there is a teapot in your town hall that is thinking up ways of getting in more cash, here in Fuengirola the Local Police are doing that with their speed traps and pulling in people for breathing... OK it hasn't got quite that bad yet ... but we are all holding our breath

I feel sure you are talking about town houses but here in the south 'for example' apartment blocks generally have parking of some sorts, it might be underground or at the back of the block but we pay a tax every year to use the entrance to our parking, it is our parking, we maintain it but yet we have to pay a tax to the town hall for that privilege. We also have a vado at the entrance to the parking which we applied for several years ago to stop people parking in the entrance (should have saved ourselves the money ) but that is a separate thing and is paid for by the community. There is also street parking but we cannot use it unless we either pay for parking tickets or buy a years town parking badge.

PS. I know the parking stuff is irrelevant but I just added it as free content

Nige

As a matter of interest, how much does it cost you annually to have your Vado displayed ? Presumably you use your own drive and if any car/vehicle/skip was parked obstructing your exit then you have the right to call the grua out. In that case the person who parked the car would face a charge - not yourself.

In the case of a neighbour who does not have a Vado, would they be able to have the obstruction removed at no cost to themselves by the grua? Has this ever been a problem? (It sounds as though it is not at present but could it be in future? )

You talk about Junta. Is this more a local Ayuntamiento idea? In any case I think that I would want to see the Law that gives power to this decision. Has the Law been interpreted by some official as allowing this kind of action ?

Veleta

That is PRECISELY the general feeling here. Never before has anyone been forced to have a vado, it was purely voluntary. People here think it is just an extra way of drumming up cash, but I view it as an abuse of their rights.

All of the townhouses here are affected. I don't know how many, but we are talking several thousand.

Veleta

The vado costs me about 120 euros a year (ish). And yes, if someone was to block my driveway this vado would entitle me to call the police and have a grua remove the blockage.

If someone blocked my neighbour's driveway (with no vado) then they remain blocked. No grua will come. It has happened on several occasions that my neighbour has been blocked INSIDE their own house and have had no option but to wait until the owner of the vehicle returned - which was 3 days on one occasion!!! That is why I chose to have a vado, but it should be just that...a CHOICE.

I only know what my neighbours have told me regarding the law, and that is that the law exists enabling the Juntas all over Spain (or ayuntamientos) to enforce vados if they so choose, but that they have (until now) chosen not to enforce that law. My feelings are that this should be deemed an 'abusive law' and should be overturned if or when it ever went to court.

Econ

I feel for you, but at the end of the day they need cash then how will they get it? if they don't get it by making several thousand people pay for a vado then what will they do otherwise.... put up the IBI! which would be a fairer option I guess.

I do not support what they are doing, mainly because I don't think something like that should be forced on anyone and I think that there is a lot of money wasted in town halls... as everywhere else when officials have access to other peoples money 'tax revenue'.
There is an office run by the town hall of Mijas just on the outskirts of Fuengirola, they have an area for 14 car parking spaces across the road from the building, for months now there has always been 14 new Peugeots with 'Mijas Ayuntamiento' on the doors parked in the spaces. I pick someone up there and drop them off again, all at different times of the day and the cars are always there, they never seem to move... so why did they buy them if they don't use them? Mijas town hall is one of the town halls that has had the most tax revenue income in Spain over the last several plus 'and the rest' years and suddenly it has no money... I wonder why?

...anyway this has nothing to do with your vados... except that it seems to all boils down to the need for money.

Nige

It would appear that local authorities will wait for formal applications from anybody wanting a Placa de Vado with supporting documents with presumably a fee to pay in order to obtain the Vado in the first place.

In the case of a property that has potential for a drive but in practice the owner does not need the use of a vehicle and therefore is not bothered, then clearly that owner would not bother with applying.

For owners who do have a drive AND use it for parking etc then they have to cross the space between the road and the drive to use their drive. That space is not owned by them I guess. It is a sort of 'Ransom Strip' and in this case the owner can, within the law, decide how the land is used. The rights of a private individual to cross that 'ransom strip' using a vehicle is the point at issue - I imagine. Pavements are designed for pedestrians.

However, it seems that when your original road/pavement was constructed the normal curb height was low and hence the chance for your local authority to create such a demand. If the curb was a curb of normal average type height, the 'cross over' would be made presumably and the Vado applied for. In other words, the local authorities pavement would have to be altered and planning permission sought. (At least this is what happens in England as you know) .
Seems to me that your developer had perhaps deliberately left the curb low so that new owners may easily access their drives and this could be seen as a 'selling point'. Maybe there is a Law about town planning and curb heights that the town council could implement in order to get the developer to correct the specifications. (Hardly likely I know) Could the developer be at fault by contravening planning laws?

By making all and sundry apply for a Vado seems plainly absurd. And the alternative even worse. But I don't know the circumstances of others and their curbs.

Fred James

In Nerja there is a "garage" tax.

It was introduced some time ago and they did nothing with it until about 2 or 3 years ago when they reintroduced it and backdated it for a few years. Anyone with access to a garage or drive pays it to the Ayuntamiento. Vado's cost even more.

It also applies on urbs with private roads.

Veleta

Yes, historically the local authority has waited for applications (such as in my case) and then provided the vado.

The issue now is that the local authority is blanketly obliging everyone with a townhouse to have the vado, regardless of whether they even own a car or not! Most people in my street do not use their driveways so do not want the vado.

Regarding the developer breaching town planning rules, I have no idea. All I can say is that all townhouses built by all developers in the city over at least the past 20+ years have been built with a lowered pavement in front of the driveway. There are 10s of thousands of houses affected built by 100s of different developers. So even if there was some kind of breach it would be impossible to follow up.

missile

In the UK, you can phone the police but in my experience they are unlikely to respond

HBG

Vados were introduced by the local council around a year ago, and most people objected, the Spanish were furious. About one in fifty now have them, mostly UK owners with holiday homes who panic when they get anything from the council.

We’ve had one letter but nothing since, so we’re waiting. It all sounds a bit daft to me, the house was built with a driveway 30 years ago. Nobody leaves their cars in the streets around here anyway, they wouldn’t last the night.

Veleta

Vados have been in existence for many many many years. I can't tell you how long, but significantly longer than I have been living in Spain. I've had mine for about 6 years now.

Vados permanentes exist all over Spain, they are not something that just spring up wherever there are tourists so 99.9% of vado owners will be Spanish.

mikelincs

There was a lot about this in the Playa Flamenca area a couple of years ago, plenty in the local papers about people having their dropped curbs removed, with a corresponding charge to them if they didn't pay for a Vado. It all boils down to the developer putting them in in front of the drive with no thought about the Vado, because the local council weren't enforcing them then. Now with the drop in income from taxes and tourism, then they look on insisting on what people should have had years ago as a means of upping their income, and, as it is a general thing, then they can't be accused of targeting ex pats or Spanish.