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Unexpected additional residency requirements

Unexpected additional residency requirements

Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:30 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
The rules are pretty clear and it's all on your Europa website. Rights and obligations:
  • For stays of over three months: EU citizens and their family members — if not working — must have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. Union citizens do not need residence permits, although Member States may require them to register with the authorities. Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit, valid for the duration of their stay or a five-year period.
.
That's the problem - that is not clear at all - when local offices are looking for minimum specific resources held in a Spanish bank account and according to the above.. it shouldn't matter if you have to pay a little towards your treatment, so long as you can afford to! But at some offices it seems to matter.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Smithy73 View Post
That's the problem - that is not clear at all - when local offices are looking for minimum specific resources held in a Spanish bank account and according to the above.. it shouldn't matter if you have to pay a little towards your treatment, so long as you can afford to! But at some offices it seems to matter.
Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as 'sufficient resources', but need to take account of the circumstances in each individual case. In any case, the amount deemed to be necessary in order to accept that the EU citizen in question is self-sufficient may not exceed the threshold under which nationals become eligible for social assistance, or the threshold for the payment of a social security pension (Article 8(4), Directive 2004/38). Union citizens retain their residence right as long as they do not become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State. National authorities can, when necessary, undertake checks as to the existence of the resources and their lawfulness, amount and availability. Self-sufficiency does not need to be acquired on the territory of the Member State of residence.25 Resources available to the EU migrant concerned from a third person must also be accepted.

Link here and your lawyer would have charged you €500:-) http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...08_REV1_EN.pdf
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:37 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as 'sufficient resources', but need to take account of the circumstances in each individual case. In any case, the amount deemed to be necessary in order to accept that the EU citizen in question is self-sufficient may not exceed the threshold under which nationals become eligible for social assistance, or the threshold for the payment of a social security pension (Article 8(4), Directive 2004/38). Union citizens retain their residence right as long as they do not become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State. National authorities can, when necessary, undertake checks as to the existence of the resources and their lawfulness, amount and availability. Self-sufficiency does not need to be acquired on the territory of the Member State of residence.25 Resources available to the EU migrant concerned from a third person must also be accepted.

Link here and your lawyer would have charged you €500:-) http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...08_REV1_EN.pdf
I don't know about all regions of Spain, but here in Gandia and where the OP is.... that just doesn't work!

My lawyer didn't charge me anything for gaining the appointment or the advice

We got our residency first time - but there is a game to be played if you want to be successful.

It took my neighbours 5 attempts

Last edited by Smithy73; Jun 13th 2018 at 9:41 am.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:42 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Smithy73 View Post

My lawyer didn't charge me anything for gaining the appointment or the advice
Well, he didn't give you advice really:-). The problem is that EU law is EU law, but most local offices don't know the EU law. At the end of the day they can't throw you out and you aren't receiving social assistance.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:45 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
Well, he didn't give you advice really:-). The problem is that EU law is EU law, but most local offices don't know the EU law. At the end of the day they can't throw you out and you aren't receiving social assistance.
She was VERY helpful and without her help I wouldn't have been able to complete this on the first attempt.
She gave more advice and accurate information than is available on the internet!

Proof of official residency is important because of Brexit

Last edited by Smithy73; Jun 13th 2018 at 9:48 am.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:48 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Smithy73 View Post
She was VERY helpful and without her help I wouldn't have been able to complete this on the first attempt
All I can say is that the regulations are pretty clear.
have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence, and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State.

Since you aren't burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State, all good.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:51 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
All I can say is that the regulations are pretty clear.
have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence, and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State.

Since you aren't burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State, no EU country can refuse.
Sure they may be clear - but in the police station in Gandia, they don't follow them! They want you to provide the insurance document for health cover in Spanish and to prove sufficient resources in a Spanish bank account and they have a set idea of what sufficient resources should be.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 9:54 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Yes, but the law also says they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned. Which gives them carte blanche to make up the rules as they go along.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 10:02 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
Yes, but the law also says they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned. Which gives them carte blanche to make up the rules as they go along.
And that point goes to this: In any case, the amount deemed to be necessary in order to accept that the EU citizen in question is self-sufficient may not exceed the threshold under which nationals become eligible for social assistance, or the threshold for the payment of a social security pension (Article 8(4), Directive 2004/38)
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 10:08 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Anyhow - the thread was about helping the OP get his residency application passed on the next attempt and helping anyone else that reads this post.
Quoting the EU legislation is interesting - but when the foreigners offices at Police stations involved worked to their own set of rules - it's not helping anyone actually gain residency.
Since the UK seems to be leaving the EU soon (Dec 2020 at this rate) gaining Spanish residency for those that want it, will be important
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 10:20 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Smithy73 View Post
Anyhow - the thread was about helping the OP get his residency application passed on the next attempt and helping anyone else that reads this post.
Quoting the EU legislation is interesting - but when the foreigners offices at Police stations involved worked to their own set of rules - it's not helping anyone actually gain residency.
Since the UK seems to be leaving the EU soon (Dec 2020 at this rate) gaining Spanish residency for those that want it, will be important
It's down to law and not what a local office says. Even then you still aren't a permanent resident and only have the right to reside. If something changes with Brexit, they might want you to have lived in Spain for 5 years (Permanent residency) etc. so nobody knows.

Last edited by Moses2013; Jun 13th 2018 at 10:27 am.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 10:23 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
It's down to law and not what a local office says. Even then you still aren't a permanent resident and only have the right to reside, so until you've actually spent 5 years in Spain, you are not a permanent resident.
Well after 2020, if you don't have it, you may not have the right to reside here at all..

When the local office says "No" because you haven't shown them some bit of paperwork that they were expecting, I think the OP has discovered that it is down to what the local office says!
Judging by one of his previous posts, he has plenty of money in a UK account and a healthcare insurance policy that satisfies the EU law

Last edited by Smithy73; Jun 13th 2018 at 10:26 am.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 10:39 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Smithy73 View Post
Well after 2020, if you don't have it, you may not have the right to reside here at all..

When the local office says "No" because you haven't shown them some bit of paperwork that they were expecting, I think the OP has discovered that it is down to what the local office says!
Judging by one of his previous posts, he has plenty of money in a UK account and a healthcare insurance policy that satisfies the EU law
Sure. My points are only relevant for EU citizens and the OP seems to need a visa, as a non EU citizen anyway. Just saying that unless it's the official law, nothing is sure or clear. Just pointing out EU law.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 11:30 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
It's down to law and not what a local office says. Even then you still aren't a permanent resident and only have the right to reside. If something changes with Brexit, they might want you to have lived in Spain for 5 years (Permanent residency) etc. so nobody knows.
I have lived in Spain for more than 5 years and my certificate gives me the right of permanent residency. If you have had your certificate for more than 5 years you can get a new one confirming that right.

As far as Brexit is concerned the situation of UK nationals in Spain has already been agreed.
  • UK nationals who, before the end of the Implementation Period, are holders of a valid permanent residence document or a valid domestic immigration document conferring a permanent right to reside, will be able to exchange that document for a new residence document free of charge. They may be required to provide proof of identity and undergo criminality and security checks.
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Old Jun 13th 2018, 11:33 am
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Default Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements

Originally Posted by Smithy73 View Post
Sure, but where does it state what they see as sufficient income?!

The UK Gov website - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residenc...ments-in-spain suggests that any health cover equivalent to the NHS, with a certificate covering Spain for the duration of your residency and then they even suggest a credit card statement showing funds available might be sufficient!!!

Which in my experience couldn't be further from the truth!!
The documentation needs to be in Spanish - So the health certificate needs to be in Spanish, showing cover for 1 year with no co payments etc
They want to see income into a Spanish bank account only! How much depends on the region!
They have no interest in what you may have in a UK bank account
Nope - my extranjeria allows copayments!

Some extranjeria allow bank statements from UK banks!

What you are stating might be in your experience but it certainly is NOT the case everywhere!
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